Cherry vs. Burke: Round 2

[CarltonTheBear]

Just watched that CC piece. Absolutely ridiculous. What a joke this guy has become.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Just watched that CC piece. Absolutely ridiculous. What a joke this guy has become.

At least the media recognises this and is avoiding giving it coverage.


:-\ :-\

 

[Andy007]

Just watched that CC piece. Absolutely ridiculous. What a joke this guy has become.

I thought it was funny that 3 of the 6 or so players in his highlights played for the NYI, a team LOWER than the Leafs in the standings.

 

[Zee]

Just watched that CC piece. Absolutely ridiculous. What a joke this guy has become.

Cherry's xenophobia is sad to be sure, but he actually speaks for a LOT of people sadly.  There are many people who are giving the old "right on Cherry!" talks today.  The funny thing is, he now has it down to Ontario vs. non-Ontario players and the fact that there are none from Ontario on the Leafs.  Just glancing at the Leafs roster, they have 9 Canadians and 7 Americans.  The captain is Canadian, 2/3rds of the top line is Canadian and the goalie who was anointed (by Burke) as the #1 goalie before the season began is Canadian.  It's ridiculous to suggest Burke is trying to build a team USA. 

The Ducks had a bunch of key players that were Canadian when they won the Cup as well, so Cherry's arguments are stupid.

 

[Kin]

Cherry's xenophobia is sad to be sure, but he actually speaks for a LOT of people sadly.  There are many people who are giving the old "right on Cherry!" talks today.  The funny thing is, he now has it down to Ontario vs. non-Ontario players and the fact that there are none from Ontario on the Leafs.  Just glancing at the Leafs roster, they have 9 Canadians and 7 Americans.  The captain is Canadian, 2/3rds of the top line is Canadian and the goalie who was anointed (by Burke) as the #1 goalie before the season began is Canadian.  It's ridiculous to suggest Burke is trying to build a team USA. 

The Ducks had a bunch of key players that were Canadian when they won the Cup as well, so Cherry's arguments are stupid.

I'm the last guy in the world to defend Don Cherry and I'll happily join in the chorus of folk saying that Don Cherry said what he did in the stupidest way possible.

But, I mean, I was pretty blown away by the fact that the Leafs have no Ontario born players. For all the tradition the Leafs have there it's a pretty stunning, if largely meaningless, departure.

As to it's actual effect...I mean a lot of people here pay a lot of lip service to the unique aspects of playing hockey in Toronto and, if that's true, I don't think it's then crazy to say that there are benefits to having guys on the team who are not only familiar with the atmosphere regarding the Leafs but who've come up through the pretty weird, pressure-heavy big business that is Toronto minor hockey.

 

[Corn Flake]

Some coach Burke just hired is from Ontario.

 

[Kin]

Some coach Burke just hired is from Ontario.

He sure is.

 

[Zee]

Cherry's xenophobia is sad to be sure, but he actually speaks for a LOT of people sadly.  There are many people who are giving the old "right on Cherry!" talks today.  The funny thing is, he now has it down to Ontario vs. non-Ontario players and the fact that there are none from Ontario on the Leafs.  Just glancing at the Leafs roster, they have 9 Canadians and 7 Americans.  The captain is Canadian, 2/3rds of the top line is Canadian and the goalie who was anointed (by Burke) as the #1 goalie before the season began is Canadian.  It's ridiculous to suggest Burke is trying to build a team USA. 

The Ducks had a bunch of key players that were Canadian when they won the Cup as well, so Cherry's arguments are stupid.

I'm the last guy in the world to defend Don Cherry and I'll happily join in the chorus of folk saying that Don Cherry said what he did in the stupidest way possible.

But, I mean, I was pretty blown away by the fact that the Leafs have no Ontario born players. For all the tradition the Leafs have there it's a pretty stunning, if largely meaningless, departure.

As to it's actual effect...I mean a lot of people here pay a lot of lip service to the unique aspects of playing hockey in Toronto and, if that's true, I don't think it's then crazy to say that there are benefits to having guys on the team who are not only familiar with the atmosphere regarding the Leafs but who've come up through the pretty weird, pressure-heavy big business that is Toronto minor hockey.

I agree with you, I was surprised to hear there were no Ontario born players, but it really didn't make me think it was done on purpose as Cherry suggests, or the fact that the Leafs should have guys like Stamkos, Tavares etc.  Those types of star players don't fall into your lap, and given the opportunity i'm sure Burke would grab those guys if he could.  He's not just going to add players *because* they're from Ontario though, that's stupid.  The comment that Cherry made that the Toronto team cheers when Canada loses is ridiculous, considering how I pointed out there are more Canadians on the Leafs than Americans.  I believe Burke when he says he looks for players he likes regardless of their passport.  Burke might lean towards U.S. players from time to time because he gets to see and work with them a lot more with his U.S. hockey duties.  You always gravitate to what you know.  To suggest that Burke favors U.S. players over Canadians all the time is just plain dumb.

 

[Kin]

I agree with you, I was surprised to hear there were no Ontario born players, but it really didn't make me think it was done on purpose as Cherry suggests, or the fact that the Leafs should have guys like Stamkos, Tavares etc.  Those types of star players don't fall into your lap, and given the opportunity i'm sure Burke would grab those guys if he could.  He's not just going to add players *because* they're from Ontario though, that's stupid.  The comment that Cherry made that the Toronto team cheers when Canada loses is ridiculous, considering how I pointed out there are more Canadians on the Leafs than Americans.  I believe Burke when he says he looks for players he likes regardless of their passport.  Burke might lean towards U.S. players from time to time because he gets to see and work with them a lot more with his U.S. hockey duties.  You always gravitate to what you know.  To suggest that Burke favors U.S. players over Canadians all the time is just plain dumb.

I'm with you most places except for what I bolded. I don't think it's a big deal or even necessarily something tangible but I wouldn't outright dismiss the idea of there being some value to having local players on the team.

 

[Zee]

I agree with you, I was surprised to hear there were no Ontario born players, but it really didn't make me think it was done on purpose as Cherry suggests, or the fact that the Leafs should have guys like Stamkos, Tavares etc.  Those types of star players don't fall into your lap, and given the opportunity i'm sure Burke would grab those guys if he could.  He's not just going to add players *because* they're from Ontario though, that's stupid.  The comment that Cherry made that the Toronto team cheers when Canada loses is ridiculous, considering how I pointed out there are more Canadians on the Leafs than Americans.  I believe Burke when he says he looks for players he likes regardless of their passport.  Burke might lean towards U.S. players from time to time because he gets to see and work with them a lot more with his U.S. hockey duties.  You always gravitate to what you know.  To suggest that Burke favors U.S. players over Canadians all the time is just plain dumb.

I'm with you most places except for what I bolded. I don't think it's a big deal or even necessarily something tangible but I wouldn't outright dismiss the idea of there being some value to having local players on the team.

I heard Dave Poulin today talk about since the 2009 draft (Burke's first with the Leafs), the Leafs lead the league with 8 Ontario born players drafted.  He was asked the question so he had to reply, but it's telling and shows that they do go for the players they think are the best at their draft positions. 

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

Some coach Burke just hired is from Ontario.

Wilson was born in Windsor.

 

[Kin]

I heard Dave Poulin today talk about since the 2009 draft (Burke's first with the Leafs), the Leafs lead the league with 8 Ontario born players drafted.  He was asked the question so he had to reply, but it's telling and shows that they do go for the players they think are the best at their draft positions.

Again, I'm not accusing Burke of avoiding Ontario born players. I'm just saying there may be some truth to having Ontario born/raised, and specifically Toronto born/raised, players on the team.

 

[Zee]

I heard Dave Poulin today talk about since the 2009 draft (Burke's first with the Leafs), the Leafs lead the league with 8 Ontario born players drafted.  He was asked the question so he had to reply, but it's telling and shows that they do go for the players they think are the best at their draft positions.

Again, I'm not accusing Burke of avoiding Ontario born players. I'm just saying there may be some truth to having Ontario born/raised, and specifically Toronto born/raised, players on the team.

Oh I totally agree with you, and I do believe that Ontario guys come in here and have a bit extra jump in their game because they're playing against the Leafs, but it's the same as when a Quebec born player goes in and plays against the Habs.  The Leafs will have guys from Ontario on the team, they have been drafting them, they're just not there yet.  Hell Burke's first draft pick with the Leafs was Kadri.

 

[Bender]

Cherry's xenophobia is sad to be sure, but he actually speaks for a LOT of people sadly.  There are many people who are giving the old "right on Cherry!" talks today.  The funny thing is, he now has it down to Ontario vs. non-Ontario players and the fact that there are none from Ontario on the Leafs.  Just glancing at the Leafs roster, they have 9 Canadians and 7 Americans.  The captain is Canadian, 2/3rds of the top line is Canadian and the goalie who was anointed (by Burke) as the #1 goalie before the season began is Canadian.  It's ridiculous to suggest Burke is trying to build a team USA. 

The Ducks had a bunch of key players that were Canadian when they won the Cup as well, so Cherry's arguments are stupid.

I'm the last guy in the world to defend Don Cherry and I'll happily join in the chorus of folk saying that Don Cherry said what he did in the stupidest way possible.

But, I mean, I was pretty blown away by the fact that the Leafs have no Ontario born players. For all the tradition the Leafs have there it's a pretty stunning, if largely meaningless, departure.

As to it's actual effect...I mean a lot of people here pay a lot of lip service to the unique aspects of playing hockey in Toronto and, if that's true, I don't think it's then crazy to say that there are benefits to having guys on the team who are not only familiar with the atmosphere regarding the Leafs but who've come up through the pretty weird, pressure-heavy big business that is Toronto minor hockey.

I get it, but I actually agree with Cox's article here. What's the difference between a Canadian and an Ontarian?

In any case, I would pick Zetterberg or Datsyuk over Phil Oreskovic... I think what it comes down to is the talent, just look at the draft class this year, nobody from Ontario is in the top 10.

 

[Kin]

I get it, but I actually agree with Cox's article here. What's the difference between a Canadian and an Ontarian?

Tangibly? Nothing for the most part. Like I said there just may be some fringe benefit to having a guy who knows the atmosphere and was raised in it.

In any case, I would pick Zetterberg or Datsyuk over Phil Oreskovic

That's a bit of a straw man though. Nobody is arguing that the Leafs would be better off with a roster full of fringe NHL players because they're from Ontario.

But the argument I'm making is that it maybe should be a factor somewhere. Not the only factor but say maybe that would be a reason to hold onto Tim Brent vs. Phillipe Dupuis or going after Jason Arnott instead of Tim Connolly.

 

[Frank E]

You know, this Americanization of the team has been eluded to around here for a little while.  I think most are afraid to speak to it for fear of what's being said about Cherry right now.

Don Cherry and Brian Burke aside, I'd personally like to see some more Ontario born players on this team for the reasons that Nik stated...and quite frankly, I enjoy cheering for local players a little more too. 

My personal preference aside, I do believe that the craziness that is minor hockey in this province would certainly produce a player that is more used to close scrutiny...and like Nik said, that could provide some tangible benefit.

As to this whole Cherry vs. Burke thing...well, Cherry is a media personality just doing his job by being critical.  And that doesn't make him right, but it certainly does encourage a discussion.

 

[cw]

I agree with you, I was surprised to hear there were no Ontario born players, but it really didn't make me think it was done on purpose as Cherry suggests, or the fact that the Leafs should have guys like Stamkos, Tavares etc.  Those types of star players don't fall into your lap, and given the opportunity i'm sure Burke would grab those guys if he could.  He's not just going to add players *because* they're from Ontario though, that's stupid.  The comment that Cherry made that the Toronto team cheers when Canada loses is ridiculous, considering how I pointed out there are more Canadians on the Leafs than Americans.  I believe Burke when he says he looks for players he likes regardless of their passport.  Burke might lean towards U.S. players from time to time because he gets to see and work with them a lot more with his U.S. hockey duties.  You always gravitate to what you know.  To suggest that Burke favors U.S. players over Canadians all the time is just plain dumb.

I'm with you most places except for what I bolded. I don't think it's a big deal or even necessarily something tangible but I wouldn't outright dismiss the idea of there being some value to having local players on the team.

I heard Dave Poulin today talk about since the 2009 draft (Burke's first with the Leafs), the Leafs lead the league with 8 Ontario born players drafted.  He was asked the question so he had to reply, but it's telling and shows that they do go for the players they think are the best at their draft positions.

I've heard Dallas Eakins say more than once that a key thing holding Ontario prospect Kadri back from the NHL is his level of fitness (tying into the other recent issue raised).

As I mentioned earlier in this thread 43% of the players drafted by Burke came from the OHL.

57% of the players who have dressed for the Leafs are CDN. The range for five CDN teams is between 57% and 62% CDN. Montreal is 46% CDN and Ottawa is 44% CDN.

Maybe Don can explain how the CDN team with the fewest % of Canadians, Ottawa, has the second best win% among CDN teams in the NHL.

 

[Zee]

I agree with you, I was surprised to hear there were no Ontario born players, but it really didn't make me think it was done on purpose as Cherry suggests, or the fact that the Leafs should have guys like Stamkos, Tavares etc.  Those types of star players don't fall into your lap, and given the opportunity i'm sure Burke would grab those guys if he could.  He's not just going to add players *because* they're from Ontario though, that's stupid.  The comment that Cherry made that the Toronto team cheers when Canada loses is ridiculous, considering how I pointed out there are more Canadians on the Leafs than Americans.  I believe Burke when he says he looks for players he likes regardless of their passport.  Burke might lean towards U.S. players from time to time because he gets to see and work with them a lot more with his U.S. hockey duties.  You always gravitate to what you know.  To suggest that Burke favors U.S. players over Canadians all the time is just plain dumb.

I'm with you most places except for what I bolded. I don't think it's a big deal or even necessarily something tangible but I wouldn't outright dismiss the idea of there being some value to having local players on the team.

I heard Dave Poulin today talk about since the 2009 draft (Burke's first with the Leafs), the Leafs lead the league with 8 Ontario born players drafted.  He was asked the question so he had to reply, but it's telling and shows that they do go for the players they think are the best at their draft positions.

I've heard Dallas Eakins say more than once that a key thing holding Ontario prospect Kadri back from the NHL is his level of fitness (tying into the other recent issue raised).

As I mentioned earlier in this thread 43% of the players drafted by Burke came from the OHL.

57% of the players who have dressed for the Leafs are CDN. The range for five CDN teams is between 57% and 62% CDN. Montreal is 46% CDN and Ottawa is 44% CDN.

Maybe Don can explain how the CDN team with the fewest % of Canadians, Ottawa, has the second best win% among CDN teams in the NHL.

Cherry doesn't deal with facts, he goes with his gut.

 

[cw]

I agree with you, I was surprised to hear there were no Ontario born players, but it really didn't make me think it was done on purpose as Cherry suggests, or the fact that the Leafs should have guys like Stamkos, Tavares etc.  Those types of star players don't fall into your lap, and given the opportunity i'm sure Burke would grab those guys if he could.  He's not just going to add players *because* they're from Ontario though, that's stupid.  The comment that Cherry made that the Toronto team cheers when Canada loses is ridiculous, considering how I pointed out there are more Canadians on the Leafs than Americans.  I believe Burke when he says he looks for players he likes regardless of their passport.  Burke might lean towards U.S. players from time to time because he gets to see and work with them a lot more with his U.S. hockey duties.  You always gravitate to what you know.  To suggest that Burke favors U.S. players over Canadians all the time is just plain dumb.

I'm with you most places except for what I bolded. I don't think it's a big deal or even necessarily something tangible but I wouldn't outright dismiss the idea of there being some value to having local players on the team.

I heard Dave Poulin today talk about since the 2009 draft (Burke's first with the Leafs), the Leafs lead the league with 8 Ontario born players drafted.  He was asked the question so he had to reply, but it's telling and shows that they do go for the players they think are the best at their draft positions.

I've heard Dallas Eakins say more than once that a key thing holding Ontario prospect Kadri back from the NHL is his level of fitness (tying into the other recent issue raised).

As I mentioned earlier in this thread 43% of the players drafted by Burke came from the OHL.

57% of the players who have dressed for the Leafs are CDN. The range for five CDN teams is between 57% and 62% CDN. Montreal is 46% CDN and Ottawa is 44% CDN.

Maybe Don can explain how the CDN team with the fewest % of Canadians, Ottawa, has the second best win% among CDN teams in the NHL.

Cherry doesn't deal with facts, he goes with his gut ignorance.

Fixed that 

 

[Frank E]

I agree with you, I was surprised to hear there were no Ontario born players, but it really didn't make me think it was done on purpose as Cherry suggests, or the fact that the Leafs should have guys like Stamkos, Tavares etc.  Those types of star players don't fall into your lap, and given the opportunity i'm sure Burke would grab those guys if he could.  He's not just going to add players *because* they're from Ontario though, that's stupid.  The comment that Cherry made that the Toronto team cheers when Canada loses is ridiculous, considering how I pointed out there are more Canadians on the Leafs than Americans.  I believe Burke when he says he looks for players he likes regardless of their passport.  Burke might lean towards U.S. players from time to time because he gets to see and work with them a lot more with his U.S. hockey duties.  You always gravitate to what you know.  To suggest that Burke favors U.S. players over Canadians all the time is just plain dumb.

I'm with you most places except for what I bolded. I don't think it's a big deal or even necessarily something tangible but I wouldn't outright dismiss the idea of there being some value to having local players on the team.

I heard Dave Poulin today talk about since the 2009 draft (Burke's first with the Leafs), the Leafs lead the league with 8 Ontario born players drafted.  He was asked the question so he had to reply, but it's telling and shows that they do go for the players they think are the best at their draft positions.

I've heard Dallas Eakins say more than once that a key thing holding Ontario prospect Kadri back from the NHL is his level of fitness (tying into the other recent issue raised).

As I mentioned earlier in this thread 43% of the players drafted by Burke came from the OHL.

57% of the players who have dressed for the Leafs are CDN. The range for five CDN teams is between 57% and 62% CDN. Montreal is 46% CDN and Ottawa is 44% CDN.

Maybe Don can explain how the CDN team with the fewest % of Canadians, Ottawa, has the second best win% among CDN teams in the NHL.

To be fair, the argument is Ontario born, not Canadian born.