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Does size matter for Leafs?

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I did some analysis of the Leafs main roster versus top teams in the league and threw in a few bottom dwellers as well. As this is pretty time consuming exercise, I went by average weight only.
The media perception is that the teams out west are big, massive, strong, along with the Bruins in the East. They play a "heavy" game that the Leafs simply are not capable of. But is that really so, is size making a huge difference?
Here is some of what I found, which I thought was interesting enough to share. I tried to use the closest I could get to what would like be the average skaters a team would typically employ, though for d-man I actually averaged the top 7. Here are the results, with some of my thoughts, comments at the bottom.

Top teams versus Leafs

Forwards Avg. Wgt. Defence Avg. Wgt.

1 LA 208 1 LA 214
2 STL 205 2 Bos 211
3 SJ 205 3 STL 210
4 Pit 204 4 Pit 210
5 Tor 203 5 Ana 207
6 Min 202 6 Mon 206
7 Ana 201 7 SJ 205
8 Bos 201 8 Tor 204
9 Chic 201 9 NYR 204
10 NYR 200 10 Chic 203
11 Mon 197 11 Min 198


Some Bottom Dwellers

Forwards Avg. Wgt. Defence Avg. Wgt.

1 Ott 204 Ott 212 *
2 NYI 202 Buf 204
3 Buf 201 * NYI 200
4 EDM 197 EDM 196

* Take out John Scott, drops to 196 lbs
* Take out Eric Karlson, jumps to 217 lbs

Some of my thoughts.
1. Skill and "compete" outweigh size. Kadri is bigger than either Marchand or Gallagher, but what if he had their "compete" level every night. Bozak is bigger than Giroux and the same size as Tyler Seguin.
2. I was surprised that Leaf forwards upfront actually have a combined weight more than BOSTON, Anaheim and Chicago. Their defence is actually bigger than Chicago's as well. Take Lucic out of the Boston forward group and it shrinks quite a bit, obviously. Guys like Marchand, Krejci and even Bergeron are not that big, except when it comes to "compete."
3. While the top teams, pound for pound, are a little bigger, the size difference is not huge. I think what's gives the strong impressions is that some of the top teams have the size where it matters - among their best players, which are the ones that draw all the attention. The Leafs three biggest players are Orr, Kulemin and Bodie, hardly difference makers, though I would argue Bodie's "compete" level is 4th line worthy. The Leafs clearly need to replace Orr with a better fourth liner, and should have done so at the trade deadline. Kulemin has only drawn second line duty because Clarkson's been a bust, so they are missing a true second winger as well. Matt Moulson would have been my choice.

Anyway, interested in your thoughts?

PS: Is it my imagination but do the Leafs seem to be getting continually out-muscled on the puck? Given their relative size, is their something missing in the conditioning?
 
Size doesn't equal toughness.  Leo Komarov is listed at 5'10" and he was by far the toughest Leaf last year.  Grabovski was up there as a guy who was tough to play against.  Not so much because of his punishing physicality but because he was a guy who would go into the dirty areas and it didn't matter how aggressive you were with the guy, he would get right back up and continue to fight for the puck.  Again, a guy under 6 feet.

It's a complete misnomer that you need a team full of 6'4" guys to be a "tough" team.  You need guys who work hard.  Unfortunately Carlyle didn't like the guys who were doing that last year.
 
I agree LK, which is why I had to shake my head during that Burke interview during the Tor/Cgy game where he said "we need to get bigger."

I think tougher, faster, more skilled, etc. are better goals.
 
I was watching this game between NYI and Ott since it was Maritimer, Brett Gallant's debut.  At 5'11" - 6'0" 175 lbs he took on 6'4" 232 lbs Matt Kassian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCrm-Yz0VZs

Gallant went after 6'5" 228 lbs Parros next game. 

Too bad he has no hockey skill with only 3 goals for 360 PIMs (85 games) in AHL, 2 goals for 317 PIMs (62 Games) in the ECHL and 8 goals for 439 PIMs (131 games) in the Q.
 
Britishbulldog said:
I was watching this game between NYI and Ott since it was Maritimer, Brett Gallant's debut.  At 5'11" - 6'0" 175 lbs he took on 6'4" 232 lbs Matt Kassian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCrm-Yz0VZs

Gallant went after 6'5" 228 lbs Parros next game. 

Too bad he has no hockey skill with only 3 goals for 360 PIMs (85 games) in AHL, 2 goals for 317 PIMs (62 Games) in the ECHL and 8 goals for 439 PIMs (131 games) in the Q.
http://shop.nhl.com/pages/Jersey_Sizing
http://www.weiketrade.hk/help/help5-16.html
 
Bullfrog said:
I agree LK, which is why I had to shake my head during that Burke interview during the Tor/Cgy game where he said "we need to get bigger."

I think tougher, faster, more skilled, etc. are better goals.

I think there's sort of an unspoken implication there that size bears a relation to "toughness".
 
Size is important, but when you look at the core characteristics of an individual player (intelligence, work ethic, skill, skating, size), size should be the least important characteristic.

I'll add that there's also other important physical parameters that go beyond a player's listed height/weight. Some guys have a much more robust build than others even if they're of comparable stature. Also, two guys of the same height could have over half a foot difference in armspan.

Putting that stuff aside, I look at the top six of the St. Louis Blues as an example of how size doesn't matter. Collectively they're a small group (Steen, Oshie, Schwartz, Sobotka are all undersized), but they also embody what it means to be small of stature but big in many other ways.
 
Nik the Trik said:
Steen's listed at either 6'1, 206, 6' 212 or 5'11, 212.

How tall do you think Kessel is?

james-van-riemsdyk-phil-kes.jpg
 
Nik the Trik said:
Perspective is a funny thing:

Not saying either picture tells the whole truth but it seems like Kessel could be jumping in yours whereas they are likely both grounded in the previous.
 
pnjunction said:
Nik the Trik said:
Perspective is a funny thing:

Not saying either picture tells the whole truth but it seems like Kessel could be jumping in yours whereas they are likely both grounded in the previous.

Yeah, I would say that Kessel is jumping to high 5 the much taller but only 6'3" JVR.

Maybe Kessel is just falling down here?

dynamic_resize


Should it really bother me this much that Kessel is listed as 6'0"?  Maybe I need age and height therapy....
 
Britishbulldog said:
Maybe Kessel is just falling down here?

Or, you know, he's clearly hunched forward? Or do you figure that Nike just gave him a maternity jersey? 
 
pnjunction said:
Nik the Trik said:
Perspective is a funny thing:

Not saying either picture tells the whole truth but it seems like Kessel could be jumping in yours whereas they are likely both grounded in the previous.

http://d6673sr63mbv7.cloudfront.net/archive/x1186897948/g5dc0000000000000000e6f28623840abe9578a5e9226beca5241e2e1c8.jpg
 
Potvin29 said:
pnjunction said:
Nik the Trik said:
Perspective is a funny thing:

Not saying either picture tells the whole truth but it seems like Kessel could be jumping in yours whereas they are likely both grounded in the previous.

http://d6673sr63mbv7.cloudfront.net/archive/x1186897948/g5dc0000000000000000e6f28623840abe9578a5e9226beca5241e2e1c8.jpg

Nik..... you were trying to deceive me.  :(
 
pnjunction said:
Nik the Trik said:
Perspective is a funny thing:

Not saying either picture tells the whole truth but it seems like Kessel could be jumping in yours whereas they are likely both grounded in the previous.

That's my point. Not that Kessel is as tall as JVR but that it's very difficult to tell someone's height from a single still photo where you can't see their legs.
 
Britishbulldog said:
Potvin29 said:
pnjunction said:
Nik the Trik said:
Perspective is a funny thing:

Not saying either picture tells the whole truth but it seems like Kessel could be jumping in yours whereas they are likely both grounded in the previous.

http://d6673sr63mbv7.cloudfront.net/archive/x1186897948/g5dc0000000000000000e6f28623840abe9578a5e9226beca5241e2e1c8.jpg

Nik..... you were trying to deceive me.  :(

He was just about to tell us all that Kessel was indeed jumping in that photograph...
 

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