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How Long Do We Keep With This same Crap?

azzurri63

azzurri63

Active member
Just on another site and all kinds of bashing regarding some of the Leafs especially Nylander after last night. My question to all of you is how long do we wait before something changes?
Some on here think everything will be fine. Need more time with the new guys, injuries etc.
I don't think so. Same crap is going on now that was happening in year one of Babcock's tenure.
I have been very critical of his coaching but I think Dubas has failed in some of his duties and has handcuffed himself with the ridiculous contracts he handed out and not addressing areas of concern.

I was very critical of the Nylander signing as he held out and for me when I guy holds out then ship him out. Got exactly what he wanted after sitting 2 months.
The other 2 signings with Mitch and Auston again overpayment and not even full terms.
Both contracts look horrible at the moment the way they are playing.
Yes I'm sure some of you will bash me with Mitch is in top 10 in scoring, Auston has 11 goals blah blah blah.
Truth of the matter is they haven't played to their capabilities and far too many nights off.
I'm actually starting to question Auston's commitment and drive. Kid has all the tools and talent but doesn't bring it each and every shift or night for that matter.

Have these guys given up on Babcock?
I personally think so.
So again the question is how long do we keep plugging away with Babcock behind the bench?
Or get rid of some of these guys and change the makeup of this team.

Some of you will disagree with me but new faces or not, injuries included I don't see a whole hell of a lot changing and longer Dubas waits the worse it's going to be.
Team was ranked second behind TB to win it all.
Yes TB is struggling but I think they will turn it around.
I don't think the Leafs will not to the point of being a top team.
They struggled in the second half last year to the point of almost being a wild card team.
Not much difference from missing the playoffs.
We shouldn't even be discussing this as I have said before we have so much more talent than 90% of the league but we struggle.

Shanny and Dubas need to do something and soon but if we are in this same situation come Christmas going to be a struggle I think to get into the playoffs and that would be an epic fail as I have said before.

Get rid of Babcock and see what happens and if the effort isn't there then get rid of some of these floaters and get some guys with some grit and play hard on a nightly basis.

 
I understand the frustration. The only thing I'll add, to give some pause, St. Louis was complete crap last year until December or so and then turned it around, figured it out, (got much better goaltending) and went on to win the cup.

This team could definitely figure it out. There was quite a bit turnover this offseason, there might be some time needed to get everyone on the same page. 
 
Yes its frustrating, but how many games have we played with our full lineup?  None to date.  Yes Matthews, Nylander and Marner are spending time in the Zombie zone.  But to suggest that Babcock has lost this team is complete BS.  Are you in the minds of the players, does the Goat personally confide in you that this is so.
Lets get  Tavares, Hyman, Muzzin and Dermott (up to speed) and  then the team will gel.  They have not been blown out except by Tampa.  Babcock will only be replaced A] if the Leafs miss the playoffs or B] they are out in round one.  Only then will Keefe come up and take over.

Azzurri take a Valium, have a scotch, watch an old Marx Bros movie and have a laugh.  You are really way to down on this team, at this point in the proceedings.
 
I'm willing to wait until the team is fully healthy (fingers crossed) and then see how they are doing after 10 games with that lineup. But I do agree with parts of the original post. Matthews in particular seems to have developed a very lackadaisical style resulting in many useless shifts. He's not impacting the game the way he was a couple of years ago, not the way a franchise player coming into his prime should. I don't know if he's playing hurt or to avoid hits but we need a lot more out of him, despite the 11 goals. Maybe Babcock should sit him, Nylander, Marner, and Johnsson down and make them watch a couple of hours of video of the Bergeron line toying with opponents in the offensive zone. They play like they want to score goals and win, 34 and 88 often look like they don't want to be bothered except when the puck shows up in a prime scoring location. Go get the damn thing.

Kerfoot seems to have meshed with the team quite well, as has Mikheyev. Barrie looks off but I have to wonder, at what point do you say it's been long enough. Ceci hasn't been as bad as I feared but is not someone who should be playing top pair minutes.

Have players tuned Babcock out? Is his "system" (especially in the dzone) just too flawed or not a good fit for the roster? Who knows. We'll get a better idea when everyone is back.
 
Yeah I hear the frustrations from Azzurri. I turned 50 last month and I'm running out of patience with the team. It appeared they were on the right track with drafting and development for the first time in my life; but now the kids seem stagnant. Maybe it's the coach, maybe it's a combo of injuries and alot of new faces this season but I want to start seeing results.  I'll give it this year to see if a) they make the playoffs again and b) actually win multiple rounds. Anything short of that is a huge failure and another wasted year. Hopefully they get it together somehow
 
I'm optimistic about the team. But I'll also admit they aren't playing to the level they're capable of. I'll call them out for playing disorganized and without the amount of effort I want to see. Part of that is not using the schedule or the integration of new players as an excuse. EVERY team has new players integrating into new systems, lines, etc.

That said, that's the reason for the optimism. If we admit they're not playing well, then we're admitting there's a lot of room to improve.
 
I see nothing really going wrong with what's going on here.  A bunch of kids who have no idea what it takes to win.  Ovechkin's comments were spot on the other day. 

You can blame Babcock, Dubas or whoever else you want.  It's the players on the ice who have to put it together.  Leafs looked pretty good for the first period last night.  After Flyers scored, Leafs got scared and stopped playing their game, got into a bunch of penalty trouble and almost lost the game. 
 
Highlander said:
Yes its frustrating, but how many games have we played with our full lineup?  None to date.  Yes Matthews, Nylander and Marner are spending time in the Zombie zone.  But to suggest that Babcock has lost this team is complete BS.  Are you in the minds of the players, does the Goat personally confide in you that this is so.
Lets get  Tavares, Hyman, Muzzin and Dermott (up to speed) and  then the team will gel.  They have not been blown out except by Tampa.  Babcock will only be replaced A] if the Leafs miss the playoffs or B] they are out in round one.  Only then will Keefe come up and take over.

Azzurri take a Valium, have a scotch, watch an old Marx Bros movie and have a laugh.  You are really way to down on this team, at this point in the proceedings.
Click to expand...

I?m down on this team because frankly I don?t see a lot changed from last year or like I said since Babcock got here.
The same things are still plaguing us. Injuries, player changes sure they have an impact but we?ll see what happens with the full roster.

I personally don?t think it?s going to drastically change. We overpaid for the 3 young guns and didn?t address the backup situation. Now Dubas May have to fix it which means having to probably deal someone when he could have avoided that if he didn?t hand out the money he did.

Guys aren?t giving it their all. Whether that?s Babcock or players giving up on him something needs to give.
 
To Toronto:

Dustin Byfuglien

To Winnipeg:

Cody Ceci
Yegor Korshkov
2nd rd pick
25% Retained on Byfuglien

Healthy Buf could be quite the antidote to some of what ails the Leafs.

The whole not being able to skate thing is a bit of an issue.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

 
Just to light on azzurri's statement regarding Matthews: I don't yet question his commitment and drive.  I think he has those, but I also think he's still a rather immature young man (thinking here not just of the actual events in AZ, but even moreso how he handled them).  You can tell a guy like him to be like Bergeron but he's what, 22?  I don't think he really understands what it takes to win in the playoffs.  Hopefully he'll get there.

But even if he does, what I do question is the "generational" tag he got.  He's very, very good.  But he's not generational; McDavid is.  He's a remarkably consistent 5 on 5 goal scorer; maybe none better.  But he's shown no particular ability to "take over" a game against the best teams.

I find it interesting that he scored 4 goals in his very first game ... and has never even tallied a hat trick since.  That is odd indeed for someone with his skills.  To me, so far anyway, he doesn't quite have it all together.

Part of it is Babcock ? no question in my mind.  I don't think he uses Matthews to best advantage.  I'll say it again, I'd like to see him on the PK.  It would help him improve his overall game, and would also eliminate situations like last night where he was essentially taken out of the game for large chunks.
 
Vegas betting odds are calculated measures meant to encourage as much betting as possible while limiting a sports book's downsides. They are made by gambling experts, not hockey experts. Hockey experts questioned if the Leafs could make it out of the first round.
 
I know the message boards are meant to be a place to exchange ideas and outlooks on the team... but I can't help but find the title of this thread funny. How long do we keep with the same "crap". Well, I guess that depends on how long you keep watching or caring because really nothing we do or say impacts anything the team does.

Also, I think it's hilarious that you think TBay turns it around. Do you not think the fan base is not having the exact same level of anger and frustration you're having right now? After a historic season and an unprecedented 1st rd sweep by a far inferior opponent? Don't make me laugh.

 
azzurri63 said:
Highlander said:
Yes its frustrating, but how many games have we played with our full lineup?  None to date.  Yes Matthews, Nylander and Marner are spending time in the Zombie zone.  But to suggest that Babcock has lost this team is complete BS.  Are you in the minds of the players, does the Goat personally confide in you that this is so.
Lets get  Tavares, Hyman, Muzzin and Dermott (up to speed) and  then the team will gel.  They have not been blown out except by Tampa.  Babcock will only be replaced A] if the Leafs miss the playoffs or B] they are out in round one.  Only then will Keefe come up and take over.

Azzurri take a Valium, have a scotch, watch an old Marx Bros movie and have a laugh.  You are really way to down on this team, at this point in the proceedings.
Click to expand...

I?m down on this team because frankly I don?t see a lot changed from last year or like I said since Babcock got here.
The same things are still plaguing us. Injuries, player changes sure they have an impact but we?ll see what happens with the full roster.

I personally don?t think it?s going to drastically change. We overpaid for the 3 young guns and didn?t address the backup situation. Now Dubas May have to fix it which means having to probably deal someone when he could have avoided that if he didn?t hand out the money he did.

Guys aren?t giving it their all. Whether that?s Babcock or players giving up on him something needs to give.
Click to expand...

Better to have the stars in hand as an overpayment than to

1) Wait til Dec 1 and get a marginally better deal
2) Burn a year of the contract.


Unless Dubas gets a bargain, which likely was never going to happen, you'd criticize the move regardless. You've heard of the term Catch-22 right?
 
Also I'd like to add.

The amount of turnover on the roster and coaching staff was drastic. The injuries to start the year are pretty significant. Freddy having really poor numbers screwed the team out of a couple of wins - league average goaltending likely gets them a couple more. We've had a ridiculous amount of back to backs to start the year which was pretty uncommon compared to other teams.

What happens if your "silver bullet" of firing Babcock has the opposite effect and the team tanks? Oh well, we tried. Yeah well there's an old adage: Do not use a cannon to kill a mosquito. The team needs time with a full roster and have their PDO even itself out. They're trying new things on the PP (again, new coaching) that haven't borne out and need to go back to the drawing board there.

If we miss the playoffs this year or have a 1st Rd exit again I'm all for firing Babcock, but there is no reason to fire him 15 games in.
 
There's a team of about 60 analytics people working for the Leafs, but I'm a fair bit more knowledgeable than they are, so here's the correct take:

There's no issue with forward deployment in terms of creating offense, as you're likely just going to redistribute the point production around the roster.  The opportunity for the Leafs is finding a way to get scored on less.  Their SH% and attempts is in the top 1/3rd in the league as a team, but their GA and SV% is in the bottom 1/3rd.

Even those being critical of the PP% (it's 18th in the league at the moment), the Leafs are 4th in the league in terms of goals for.  You're more likely to just see a redistribution of the goals scored away from 5v5 to PP, if that makes you feel any better. 

The GA is 3.4 goals per game.  That's good for 4th worse in the league.

Interesting:

18 GA in 1st period
11 GA in 2nd period
20 GA in 3rd period

The sample size is a big problem because they're only 15 games into the season, so really plenty of time to get worse.
 
Hockey players are human. As much as the NHL would like them to act like robots, they aren't.

- Marner is dealing with the pressure of the new contract and is dealing with the passing of Hayden Foulon, so that could be affecting him. 
- Matthews has had a little more time to deal with the contract, however it jsut kicked in, so maybe that realization is just hitting him.  Also he is probably dealing with having his hand slapped because of the events over the summer.  It's possible this has put him in to a petulant mindset.
- Tavares just had a kid, so his slow start before the injury could be attributed to that.  Anyone with a kid, think back to that first six months after they were born and think about how effective you were at your job.

I mean, I don't know any of these guys personally, but it's possible hockey is hard for them right now.

If that's the case then that's three of the big 4 possibly dealing with stuff outside of hockey that may take a little time to correct.  If you have a team that is built around 4 main components, that could be a problem.
 
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