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Method to the Madness

Kin

Kin

New member
So, in light of today's news, I started thinking about the off-season as a whole and what, if anything, we should take away from the decisions Nonis has made. So, if you'll give me a little bit of rope in terms of rumour vs. fact, here's some of the things that we might assume:

-Nonis was not super-high on Reimer
-Nonis was not super-high on Phaneuf
-Nonis was not super-high on Bozak
-Nonis was not super-high on Grabovski

I mean, most of those are either blatantly obvious or stand to reason considering he added Bernier, apparently was open to dealing Phaneuf, seems luke-warm on bringing back Bozak and bought-out Grabo. Now, maybe, let's add that we haven't heard a ton about negotiations with Kessel and we haven't really heard anything filtering out about any FA's that the Leafs are actively negotiating with.

Well, and maybe some people will look at this and say I'm just seeing what I want to but, but maybe Nonis looked at this season, saw what happened, saw the sort of cap space he had and the realistic chances this club had to add to it via free agency and trade and just came to the conclusion that this largely assembled by Burke team just didn't have the core to compete for a cup? That it didn't have its Quick or Chara or Toews or Keith or whatever top flight elite sort of guys that he thinks a cup contender can be built around? I mean, considering that the team just made it's first playoff appearance in almost a decade it'd have been crazy for him to come out and say that the team was rebuilding again but...I don't know it seems like he's more than amenable to the idea of a pretty drastic overhaul.

And, honestly, when we're looking at the free agent market and we're all trying to decide which of Stephen Weiss, Mikhail Grabovski or Tyler Bozak should be the #1 center going forward, can you blame him? As good as Kessel's been, can you really argue with the idea that the team needs someone to not just be good with him but to be the guy around who a cup winner can be built with him?

Again, maybe this is just me seeing what I've argued for five or so years but I don't want to sign any of these free agents. I think the shot differential this year showed a team further away than their record indicated. I think that if Nonis thinks that this team isn't ready for the push...he's kind of going about it the right way.
 
Makes me wonder what Nonis was doing as 2nd in command to Burke if he disagreed with all those players that Burke loved. Either he had no say at all or he constantly turtled to Burke's wishes.
 
Zee said:
Makes me wonder what Nonis was doing as 2nd in command to Burke if he disagreed with all those players that Burke loved. Either he had no say at all or he constantly turtled to Burke's wishes.
Click to expand...

Well, or he just didn't have final say. He might not have loved those guys and told Burke about it but ultimately those decisions weren't on him.
 
Zee said:
Makes me wonder what Nonis was doing as 2nd in command to Burke if he disagreed with all those players that Burke loved. Either he had no say at all or he constantly turtled to Burke's wishes.
Click to expand...

This is what came to my mind first, but I also thought that I should wait a couple days before commenting on this thread, because I am a bit confused about the direction right now.

One thing I will say is that Nonis appeared to also be a bit surprised about what teams were willing to let go or possibly trade, release, buyout or what have you, so maybe all this is morphing as we speak about it. But it doesn't exclude what Nik is saying about how Nonis felt about the direction the team was going after watching them this season.

Before I comment anymore though, I want to see what Nonis is going to do with all this cap space.
 
Nik the Trik said:
So, in light of today's news, I started thinking about the off-season as a whole and what, if anything, we should take away from the decisions Nonis has made. So, if you'll give me a little bit of rope in terms of rumour vs. fact, here's some of the things that we might assume:

-Nonis was not super-high on Reimer
-Nonis was not super-high on Phaneuf
-Nonis was not super-high on Bozak
-Nonis was not super-high on Grabovski

I mean, most of those are either blatantly obvious or stand to reason considering he added Bernier, apparently was open to dealing Phaneuf, seems luke-warm on bringing back Bozak and bought-out Grabo. Now, maybe, let's add that we haven't heard a ton about negotiations with Kessel and we haven't really heard anything filtering out about any FA's that the Leafs are actively negotiating with.

Well, and maybe some people will look at this and say I'm just seeing what I want to but, but maybe Nonis looked at this season, saw what happened, saw the sort of cap space he had and the realistic chances this club had to add to it via free agency and trade and just came to the conclusion that this largely assembled by Burke team just didn't have the core to compete for a cup? That it didn't have its Quick or Chara or Toews or Keith or whatever top flight elite sort of guys that he thinks a cup contender can be built around? I mean, considering that the team just made it's first playoff appearance in almost a decade it'd have been crazy for him to come out and say that the team was rebuilding again but...I don't know it seems like he's more than amenable to the idea of a pretty drastic overhaul.

And, honestly, when we're looking at the free agent market and we're all trying to decide which of Stephen Weiss, Mikhail Grabovski or Tyler Bozak should be the #1 center going forward, can you blame him? As good as Kessel's been, can you really argue with the idea that the team needs someone to not just be good with him but to be the guy around who a cup winner can be built with him?

Again, maybe this is just me seeing what I've argued for five or so years but I don't want to sign any of these free agents. I think the shot differential this year showed a team further away than their record indicated. I think that if Nonis thinks that this team isn't ready for the push...he's kind of going about it the right way.
Click to expand...

So the last paragraph confuses me a bit. Do you think Nonis is pursuing a stealth rebuild? That would, I'd imagine, entail moving the guys he isn't high on for assets that might help him get to those core pieces. Bozak and Grabbo are gone for nothing... it's a very stealthy sort of rebuild that proceeds without acquiring prospects or picks.
 
mr grieves said:
So the last paragraph confuses me a bit. Do you think Nonis is pursuing a stealth rebuild? That would, I'd imagine, entail moving the guys he isn't high on for assets that might help him get to those core pieces. Bozak and Grabbo are gone for nothing... it's a very stealthy sort of rebuild that proceeds without acquiring prospects or picks.
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Except that assumes that Grabo or Bozak could have been turned into assets. It's pretty hard to do that with Bozak as a pending UFA and the timing of the Grabo buyout kind of indicates he did what he could to trade him.
 
This board will explode if Nonis trades Kessel as part of the "new direction"
 
I suppose what I'm saying is this...imagine for a second that Nonis wasn't Burke's second in command. Imagine if he was just someone hired from the outside in his first off-season with the team. Wouldn't his decisions kind of look like he wanted to blow things up?

I don't know, like I said it could be me, but I don't know that I see a ton of difference in what I'm hearing out of the Leafs right now and what I'm hearing out of the Raptors.
 
Zee said:
This board will explode if Nonis trades Kessel as part of the "new direction"
Click to expand...

Maybe. But what if it comes out that Kessel wants 9.5 million per and is pretty adamant about getting it?
 
Nik the Trik said:
Zee said:
This board will explode if Nonis trades Kessel as part of the "new direction"
Click to expand...

Maybe. But what if it comes out that Kessel wants 9.5 million per and is pretty adamant about getting it?
Click to expand...

He has the same agent as Bozak, doesn't he?

If they think Bozak's worth 8 years and $4.75m, they might well put Kessel at something truly insane.

And that's something a good GM should've figured out before the guy's NTC kicked in. That and not knowing what to make of the roster until the playoffs were done, thereby holding Bozak until he's just walking and buying out Grabbo rather than letting him play himself back into being a tradable asset, look to me like the marks of an indecisive and desperate GM.


 
mr grieves said:
Nik the Trik said:
Zee said:
This board will explode if Nonis trades Kessel as part of the "new direction"
Click to expand...

Maybe. But what if it comes out that Kessel wants 9.5 million per and is pretty adamant about getting it?
Click to expand...

He has the same agent as Bozak, doesn't he?

If they think Bozak's worth 8 years and $4.75m, they might well put Kessel at something truly insane.

And that's something a good GM should've figured out before the guy's NTC kicked in. That and not knowing what to make of the roster until the playoffs were done, thereby holding Bozak until he's just walking and buying out Grabbo rather than letting him play himself back into being a tradable asset, look to me like the marks of an indecisive and desperate GM.
Click to expand...

Word is Giroux is working on an 8 year extension for between 8.25 and 8.41, I think Kessel will be the same number.
 
mr grieves said:
And that's something a good GM should've figured out before the guy's NTC kicked in. That and not knowing what to make of the roster until the playoffs were done, thereby holding Bozak until he's just walking and buying out Grabbo rather than letting him play himself back into being a tradable asset, look to me like the marks of an indecisive and desperate GM.
Click to expand...

But it's like I said, with the team on the verge of making the playoffs for the first time in so long Nonis realistically couldn't have swung an axe into the middle of it after a few months on the job and started blowing things up. Likewise, he may not have wanted to risk Grabo being hurt and ineligible for the buyout next summer if he didn't turn himself into a tradeable asset or he just didn't think that Grabo was capable of it.
 
Nik the Trik said:
Again, maybe this is just me seeing what I've argued for five or so years but I don't want to sign any of these free agents. I think the shot differential this year showed a team further away than their record indicated. I think that if Nonis thinks that this team isn't ready for the push...he's kind of going about it the right way.
Click to expand...

As for the bolded bit, if that were Nonis's assessment, don't you think he wouldn't be getting rid of all the best possession players on the roster?
 
mr grieves said:
As for the bolded bit, if that were Nonis's assessment, don't you think he wouldn't be getting rid of all the best possession players on the roster?
Click to expand...

No. Not if he ultimately decided that they needed to be replaced even if they were the best of a bad bunch in that regard.
 
Hey, I'm all for firing up Tank Nation again!  Though how do you  make sense of trading for Bernier?  Unless Nonis is truly "building from the net out".
 
Guru Tugginmypuddah said:
Hey, I'm all for firing up Tank Nation again!  Though how do you  make sense of trading for Bernier?  Unless Nonis is truly "building from the net out".
Click to expand...

McTanking for McDavid?
 
I think you have a good point and where it not for the Bolland deal, I'd give it more weight. 

I think that deal probably means Nonis sees us competing sooner rather than later.
 
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