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Tim Leiweke

Highlander

Active member
Just wanted to say a few words about Tim Leiweke. When we hired him I mentioned this to a fellow I know, but didn't know he used to work under Leiweke in LA.  He said, if you have Tim he will turn your town around.

The success of the Raptors, Leafs and yes the MLS Toronto FC is all attributed to Mr. Leiweke.  Just wanted to thank him and that he did have enought time to institute the changes before he was run out of town.
Thank God the placements he made with Shanahan, Ujiri and Bezbatchenko all seem to be anchored in their positions so the suites can't ruin what he did.

And will he ever truly be given the credit that is due?
 
I don't really see how you can attribute the Raptors' success to him. Ujiri has been a pretty good GM but Lowry, DeRozan, Valanciunas and Casey were all here before Leiweke or Ujiri were on board.
 
Highlander said:
More of a referal to the TFC success in the last year.

You said the success of all three franchises were all attributed to him. Also, you said he was run out of town when he quit.
 
Nik, he brought in Shanahan, we know the rest. The Raptors GM and now President is one of the best in the business, its a fact. Toronto FC a revelation in contrast to what they where.  Leiweke is soley responsible for the turnarounds of 3 franchises, which we all collectively can now be very proud of.
Leiweke may have quit but he was forced out, everyone knows this and knows he wanted to stay for a longer term.
You seem to have a problem with him, so what is it?
 
My only problem is that some of the things you're saying are blatantly untrue. Colangelo hired Casey, drafted Ross, DeRozan and Valanciunas and traded for Lowry. Ujiri, and by extension Leiweke, is not solely responsible for the Raptors turnaround. That is false. Full stop. Is Ujiri one of the better GMs in basketball? Again, not a fact. I think he's pretty good but his additions to the team have not been as significant as Colangelo's.

As to his departure, again, you are saying things that aren't true. It's not that he "may have" quit, he did. And from what I remember at the time he most certainly wasn't forced out. In fact, his leaving early was reported as very much leaving his employers in the lurch as they expected him to be around longer. The reasons for his leaving were alternately given as his Wife not liking living in the cold of Toronto, him wanting to start his own business and after missing out on a chance to buy the Bills not seeing much more for him to do here.

I don't know enough about MLS to comment there but he's not solely responsible for turning the Raptors around and the Leafs haven't been turned around yet.
 
Highlander said:
Nik, he brought in Shanahan, we know the rest. The Raptors GM and now President is one of the best in the business, its a fact. Toronto FC a revelation in contrast to what they where.  Leiweke is soley responsible for the turnarounds of 3 franchises, which we all collectively can now be very proud of.
Leiweke may have quit but he was forced out, everyone knows this and knows he wanted to stay for a longer term.
You seem to have a problem with him, so what is it?

If everyone knows that he was forced out, surely you can provide a link that acknowledges this.
 
Nik the Trik said:
My only problem is that some of the things you're saying are blatantly untrue. Colangelo hired Casey, drafted Ross, DeRozan and Valanciunas and traded for Lowry. Ujiri, and by extension Leiweke, is not solely responsible for the Raptors turnaround. That is false. Full stop. Is Ujiri one of the better GMs in basketball? Again, not a fact. I think he's pretty good but his additions to the team have not been as significant as Colangelo's.

As to his departure, again, you are saying things that aren't true. It's not that he "may have" quit, he did. And from what I remember at the time he most certainly wasn't forced out. In fact, his leaving early was reported as very much leaving his employers in the lurch as they expected him to be around longer. The reasons for his leaving were alternately given as his Wife not liking living in the cold of Toronto, him wanting to start his own business and after missing out on a chance to buy the Bills not seeing much more for him to do here.

I don't know enough about MLS to comment there but he's not solely responsible for turning the Raptors around and the Leafs haven't been turned around yet.

Agreed he wasn't "solely" responsible for the turnaround for the Raptors.  Nobody is.

However, the Raptors were SHIT before Ujiri traded Gay for Sacramento's bench and that trade STILL serves them well (Patterson, Powell (via Vasquez), Bebe (via Salmons)).  Yup, that team included Lowry, DeRozan, Ross, Valancunias, and Casey as coach. While each of those players still had to grow into the players they are today, you don't think Ujiri came in and changed the tune of the franchise?  I don't disagree that our top 3 players still come from the Colangelo era, but they became a much better team under the management of Ujiri, a Leiweke hire.

 
Coco-puffs said:
Agreed he wasn't "solely" responsible for the turnaround for the Raptors.  Nobody is.

However, the Raptors were SHIT before Ujiri traded Gay for Sacramento's bench and that trade STILL serves them well (Patterson, Powell (via Vasquez), Bebe (via Salmons)).  Yup, that team included Lowry, DeRozan, Ross, Valancunias, and Casey as coach. While each of those players still had to grow into the players they are today, you don't think Ujiri came in and changed the tune of the franchise?  I don't disagree that our top 3 players still come from the Colangelo era, but they became a much better team under the management of Ujiri, a Leiweke hire.

I think part of the Raptors becoming a better team is that Ujiri made some good moves to build on what they had and part of it is, like you say, the young core they already had developing. Ujiri's got some faults too(still waiting on anything from his 1st round picks, no real road map to making the leap to legit contender) and I think those faults are significant enough that the larger question of his tenure remains an open one but he certainly deserves some of the credit.

What I mainly objected to is the idea that Ujiri, and by extension Leiweke, is solely responsible for the team's turnaround.
 
Nik did I ever say solely responsible for anything (or if I did it was after a scotch and valium). Every franchise and every team I mentioned had some of the pieces in place for the turnaround.  With the Leafs, Kadri, JVR Gardiner and Reilly were pieces Nonis and Burkshire had in place and now are integral in the new Leafs we are coming to enjoy under Shanahan. Everyone knew that Leiweke was more a soccer guy and the TFC is his leading achievement to date.
Regarding the Raptors, there are many sportswriters that have said without the Gay trade we wouldnt be where we are now. Not even close.

And Leiweke was forced out, don't have the links sorry. It was a boardroom thing, the silent whisper.
 
Highlander said:
Nik did I ever say solely responsible for anything (or if I did it was after a scotch and valium).

You realize you can go back yourself and read the posts you've made, right?

Highlander said:
Leiweke is soley responsible for the turnarounds of 3 franchises,

Highlander said:
The success of the Raptors, Leafs and yes the MLS Toronto FC is all attributed to Mr. Leiweke.

Although the second one is clearly a case of you not really knowing what you're saying as your main complaint here seems to be that he doesn't get enough credit and attribution means to credit someone.

Pro tip: Nobody likes a sloppy drinker.

Highlander said:
Every franchise and every team I mentioned had some of the pieces in place for the turnaround.  With the Leafs, Kadri, JVR Gardiner and Reilly were pieces Nonis and Burkshire had in place and now are integral in the new Leafs we are coming to enjoy under Shanahan.

Right. So Leiweke played some role in their success which I think everyone would agree. He wasn't a miracle worker, but he did a reasonably good job(albeit one he left unfinished) in his short time here. That seems like an appropriate amount of credit for what his teams have actually accomplished.

Highlander said:
Regarding the Raptors, there are many sportswriters that have said without the Gay trade we wouldnt be where we are now. Not even close.

And Leiweke was forced out, don't have the links sorry. It was a boardroom thing, the silent whisper.

So the sportswriters who say that about the Gay trade should be believed but the countless articles I could link to saying that Leiweke left of his own volition(including Leiweke saying that very thing) are to be dismissed on your say so?.

What's the determing factor for a media opinion being true? Whether it fits your narrative?
 
Also, it should be mentioned that "Where the Raptors are right now" is sort of a mixed blessing like I said to Cocopuffs. Shanahan and co. made the decision to blow up the Leafs and it's paying dividends. Ujiri decided not to blow up the Raptors and where that's led them is debatable. Yes, they had their most successful season but they also just barely got out of the first round and are still outmanned and undergunned in their race for a title. The decision not to blow up the Raptors has yet to be shown to be the right one.
 
Nik the Trik said:
Also, it should be mentioned that "Where the Raptors are right now" is sort of a mixed blessing like I said to Cocopuffs. Shanahan and co. made the decision to blow up the Leafs and it's paying dividends. Ujiri decided not to blow up the Raptors and where that's led them is debatable. Yes, they had their most successful season but they also just barely got out of the first round and are still outmanned and undergunned in their race for a title. The decision not to blow up the Raptors has yet to be shown to be the right one.

I definitely think not blowing up the Raptors was the right move, but only in hindsight.  I honestly didn't expect DeRozan to become this good- he takes steps forward every year- nor did I expect Lowry to get skinny and thus even better.  That said, had they blown it up, they would be miles away from contending and would have required some real luck to get the players that make NBA teams into contenders. 

The thing with the NHL is you can probably build a contending team by drafting a whole lot of pretty good-to-great talent in the 1st round over a 5 year span of sucking and drafting and developing some gems out of the later rounds. 

In the NBA, superstars like LeBron, Curry, Durant, Westbrook, Leonard and Paul are what make you legitimate contenders (and surrounding them with good talent).  Out of the last few drafts, I think the only player who becomes equivalent to them is Karl-Anthony Towns and the Raptors would have had to have been really lucky to land him.  Its just not the same.  If you ask me, tanking for a couple of more years would much more likely end up resulting in drafting another DeRozan and Lowry combo than a superstar.
 
Coco-puffs said:
Also, it should be mentioned that "Where the Raptors are right now" is sort of a mixed blessing like I said to Cocopuffs. Shanahan and co. made the decision to blow up the Leafs and it's paying dividends. Ujiri decided not to blow up the Raptors and where that's led them is debatable. Yes, they had their most successful season but they also just barely got out of the first round and are still outmanned and undergunned in their race for a title. The decision not to blow up the Raptors has yet to be shown to be the right one.

I definitely think not blowing up the Raptors was the right move, but only in hindsight.  I honestly didn't expect DeRozan to become this good- he takes steps forward every year- nor did I expect Lowry to get skinny and thus even better.  That said, had they blown it up, they would be miles away from contending and would have required some real luck to get the players that make NBA teams into contenders. 

The thing with the NHL is you can probably build a contending team by drafting a whole lot of pretty good-to-great talent in the 1st round over a 5 year span of sucking and drafting and developing some gems out of the later rounds. 

In the NBA, superstars like LeBron, Curry, Durant, Westbrook, Leonard and Paul are what make you legitimate contenders (and surrounding them with good talent).  Out of the last few drafts, I think the only player who becomes equivalent to them is Karl-Anthony Towns and the Raptors would have had to have been really lucky to land him.  Its just not the same.  If you ask me, tanking for a couple of more years would much more likely end up resulting in drafting another DeRozan and Lowry combo than a superstar.
[/quote]

I think it's important to keep in mind when looking at that list of superstars that while some like Lebron and KD were stars when they came into the league, others weren't. It took Curry and Leonard especially years before they became what they are now. So, yeah, guys like Wiggins and Porzingis might not look at that level now, compare them and what they're doing at 21 to what Leonard did at the same age and it's not this massive gap(with the caveat that Leonard wouldn't get the touches they have).

With that in mind, I think there are two ways to build a real contender in the NBA. You can bottom out and hope to get lucky with one of those top of the draft sort of stars or you can do it with depth.
By using top 10 and top 20 picks to draft guys who might not be superstars at first but who develop into legit all-stars. So like what Golden State did with Curry or Thompson or San Antonio with Leonard or OKC with Ibaka and so on.

Ujiri, who took over a team with a couple of very solid players, looks like he's going the latter route as he did in Denver. That's not necessarily a bad choice but it is one that puts pressure on him to add players who aren't just pretty good like Carroll or ok bench pieces like Patterson/Bebe. He's got to hit a few triples in the draft too.

Guys like Poetl, Cabaclo, Wright, Siakam...for the Raptors to get to the next level at least one of those guys needs to legitimately become a borderline all-star starter. Is that an easy thing to do? No. But that is the added pressure a GM is under if he doesn't blow it up and start with those superstars. Until Ujiri actually does that, we won't really know if it was the right choice.
 
Leiweke can be given a modicum of credit for having planted  the seeds of the (future) successes of Toronto's three franchises -- the Leafs, the Raptors, and the Toronto FC:

For the Raptors, (after firing GM Colangelo who was responsible for having drafted the team's starting five), Leiweke brought in Ujiri, as replacement.  Ujiri hired coach Casey, and began piecing a good foundation for the team, with Leiweke's support, of course.  Leiweke also got Drake to be the team's ambassador.

For the Leafs, Leiweke extended Nonis' contract, who in turn gave extended long terms  to Kessel, Phaneuf, Clarkson...no need to rehash that.  Leiweke did hire Shanahan, who took the reins to revamp the organization from the ground up.

As for the Toronto FC, Leiweke spent heavily on acquiring international players, but this did little to bring the team out if it's sorry state.  Not until MLSE 'rebuilt' the team with better management at all levels did the franchise show any semblance of improving their on-field record.  It has taken quite some time, but now having Altidore, Bradley, Giovinco, a mix of veterans and skilled young talent, has led the TFC to the delightful reality of making it to the MLS Cup Championship next Saturday against the Seattle Saunders!  A welcome relief for the team's long-suffering fans.

More on the Leiweke legacy: (old article but a worthy read)
http://www.ichill.ca/articles/leiweke-s-legacy
 
hockeyfan1 said:
For the Raptors, (after firing GM Colangelo who was responsible for having drafted the team's starting five), Leiweke brought in Ujiri, as replacement.  Ujiri hired coach Casey, and began piecing a good foundation for the team, with Leiweke's support, of course.  Leiweke also got Drake to be the team's ambassador.

Your ratio of "time spent writing posts" to "time editing posts" is way off. Not only is most of this paragraph nonsense, it's not accurate. Ujiri didn't hire Casey, Colangelo did. Colangelo didn't "draft" the team's starting 5, either now or then. Lowry was a trade, Gay was a trade and Amir Johnson was a free agent signing.

More over the idea that Ujiri "began piecing a good foundation" for the team is, aside from a garbled metaphor, not true when as I've stated repeatedly in this thread the foundation, Lowry-DeRozan-Valanciunas, was already here.

Literally the only accurate or complete sentence in that paragraph is the one about Drake.
 
Highlander said:
and the Rudy Gay trade??

What about it? It was a pretty good trade that added the team's 3rd and 4th most important bench players and picks.

Like I said, Ujiri has done a reasonably good job heading up the Raps but before we fall over ourselves calling him one of the better GMs in the league and thinking Leiweke hung the moon accordingly I think he has to do a little bit more than add some good bench players and get out of a few bad contracts. 
 
No doubt about that, I still think Leiweke came in and looked at what needed to be done. First he worked on TFC and now we are one came away from a MLS Championship. Raptors althought I do concede your points are stable and are a leading and now perenial playoff team.
Leiweke admited he weakness was Hockey, and he rehired Nonis. When he realished what a terrible decision that was he turned to Shanahan and said you have carte blanche to fix this mess.  The mess is not fixed completely as yet but we sure is heading in the right direction.
 

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