Top 10 "Greatest Leafs of All-Time"

[hockeyfan1]

Sportsnet is coming out with a magazine devoted to the "Greatest Leafs of All-Time", a sure collector's edition.  Since they are also taking in the fans views on the above subject here...


http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/the_greatest_maple_leafs_of_all_time_ranking_poll/


...just for fun, I was wondering what would the choices be for many of us on the boards based on the presented players to choose from?


Mine are:  (from the Sportsnet list)

1. Teeder Kennedy
2. George Armstrong
3. Syl Apps
4. Charlie Conacher
5. King Clancy
6. Johnny Bower
7. Mats Sundin
8. Borje Salming
9. Dave Keon
10. Darryl Sittler


Here, by the way, is the list:  (in alpahbetical order)...

Syl Apps
George Armstrong
Max Bentley
Johnny Bower
Turk Broda
King Clancy
Wendel Clark
Charlie Conacher
Hap Day
Gordie Drillon
Dick Duff
Babe Dye
Ron Ellis
Doug Gilmour
Red Horner
Tim Horton
Buster Jackson
Curtis Joseph
Red Kelly
Teeder Kennedy
Dave Keon
Harry Lumley
Frank Mahovlich
Lanny McDonald
Joe Primeau
Borje Salming
Darryl Sittler
Allan Stanley
Mats Sundin
Rick Vaive

 

[drummond]

1. Mats Sundin
2. Dave Keon
3. Turk Broda
4. Ted Kennedy
5. Borje Salming
6. Darryl Sittler
7. George Armstrong
8. Frank Mahovlich
9. Ron Ellis
10. Charlie Conacher

 

[Justin]

1. Mats Sundin
2. Teeder Kennedy
3. Dave Keon
4. Borje Salming
5. Frank Mahovlich
6. Daryl Sittler
7. Johnny Bower
8. George Armstrong
9. Doug Gilmour
10. Wendel Clark

 

[maplesyrup]

I'll continue to swear by Salming/Sundin 1/2 (and probably ever so narrowly in that order) until the day I die I imagine.

 

[Kin]

1. Mats
2. Dave Keon
3, Darryl Sittler
4. Teeder Kennedy
5. Tim Horton
6. Borje Salming
7. Johnny Bower
8. Charlie Conacher
9. Wendel Clark
10. Lanny McDonald

edit: I guess he's fallen out of favour to some but I'm pretty sure Tim Horton has the most All-NHL First Team selections of any Leafs defenseman in history. 4 cups, consecutive game record that stood until 2007, ranked #43 on THN's list of 100 greatest players...he was more than a fried dough enthusiast, folks.

 

[Justin]

I'll continue to swear by Salming/Sundin 1/2 (and probably ever so narrowly in that order) until the day I die I imagine.

Even though I had Salming 4th I wouldn't disagree with that. He's the all-time Leafs leader in goals, assists, and points by a defenseman, he was a great all-around player that could skate, shoot, pass, and play physical, he was a Swedish hockey pioneer, and the best Swedish defenseman of all-time.

 

[Kin]

Even though I had Salming 4th I wouldn't disagree with that. He's the all-time Leafs leader in goals, assists, and points by a defenseman, he was a great all-around player that could skate, shoot, pass, and play physical, he was a Swedish hockey pioneer, and the best Swedish defenseman of all-time.

Um, no.

 

[maplesyrup]

Yeah, as big as a Salming nut as I was/am, even I can't say that. Though I would have loved have seen him play in this era.

 

[Beowulf]

Even though I had Salming 4th I wouldn't disagree with that. He's the all-time Leafs leader in goals, assists, and points by a defenseman, he was a great all-around player that could skate, shoot, pass, and play physical, he was a Swedish hockey pioneer, and the best Swedish defenseman of all-time.

Um, no.

Agreed and that isn't a slight against Salming at all...Lidstrom has to take this title. Not to mention he's possibly the greatest defenseman of all time regardless of nationality.

 

[Justin]

Even though I had Salming 4th I wouldn't disagree with that. He's the all-time Leafs leader in goals, assists, and points by a defenseman, he was a great all-around player that could skate, shoot, pass, and play physical, he was a Swedish hockey pioneer, and the best Swedish defenseman of all-time.

Um, no.

Agreed. Typing that was a huge oversight on my part. I forgot about Nik to be honest 

 

[Beowulf]

Fwiw, mine:

1. Sundin
2. Keon
3. Sittler
4. Horton
5. Salming
6. Mahovlich
7. Armstrong
8. Bower
9. Ellis
10. Clark

 

[maplesyrup]

Agreed. Typing that was a huge oversight on my part. I forgot about Nik to be honest 

No worries. We all do that.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Even though I had Salming 4th I wouldn't disagree with that. He's the all-time Leafs leader in goals, assists, and points by a defenseman, he was a great all-around player that could skate, shoot, pass, and play physical, he was a Swedish hockey pioneer, and the best Swedish defenseman of all-time.

Um, no.

Agreed. Typing that was a huge oversight on my part. I forgot about Nik to be honest 

Hey, Borje was the greatest Swedish defenseman of all time!  Right up until 1995.

 

[maplesyrup]

As far as I'm concerned there's a few guys I wouldn't consider as wrong answers for the greatest Leaf ever but yesterday, Mike Ulmer made a case for my guy, Borje Salming;

http://blog.mapleleafs.com/salming-could-be-best-leaf-ever/

 

[Kin]

As far as I'm concerned there's a few guys I wouldn't consider as wrong answers for the greatest Leaf ever but yesterday, Mike Ulmer made a case for my guy, Borje Salming;

http://blog.mapleleafs.com/salming-could-be-best-leaf-ever/

That Borje Salming is the best-ever Leafs defenceman is above debate.

I'm sorry but that flat-out makes Ulmer sound like a complete stooge. When the Hockey News did their list of the 100 greatest players of all-time in '98 Salming finished 74th. Tim Horton finished 43rd. Horton has more 1st team all-NHL selections. He won 4 cups. He was named the 59th greatest Canadian of all time. He made a fine donut.

Favor Salming all you want but to say it's not a debate is just flat-out dumb. I'd be more than happy making the Timmy Horton case. 

 

[maplesyrup]

Ulmer is a "complete stooge" and "dumb" because he disagrees with the Hockey News? I see.

 

[Kin]

Ulmer is a "complete stooge" and "dumb" because he disagrees with the Hockey News? I see.

No, he's a complete stooge for saying there's not a case to be made for Horton, which is dumb. Like I said, favor Salming if you're inclined but the evidence tilts Horton's way, not Salming's.

 

[maplesyrup]

No, he's a complete stooge for saying there's not a case to be made for Horton, which is dumb. Like I said, favor Salming if you're inclined but the evidence tilts Horton's way, not Salming's.

It tilts Horton's way because he won championships surrounded by more talent in a 6 team league?

I mean, take what he wrote in the article;

"His career plus minus of 181 is nearly twice that of the runner-up, Mats Sundin. Salming was plus 40 in his rookie season with the Leafs.

Salming?s 620 assists is the Leafs best. He is third in games in 1,099, 88 games shy of George Armstrong?s team leading 1,187."

How can Horton compete with that? - No disrespect to Horton intended. 

 

[Kin]

It tilts Horton's way because he won championships surrounded by more talent in a 6 team league?

Championships, First Team All-Star selections, tasty snack making. They all lean Horton's way.

I mean, take what he wrote in the article;

"His career plus minus of 181 is nearly twice that of the runner-up, Mats Sundin. Salming was plus 40 in his rookie season with the Leafs.

Plus minus, as a statistic, didn't exist for most of when Horton played. HockeyReference, which has Salming at +175, has Horton at +81 when he was 38-44.

Salming?s 620 assists is the Leafs best.

Horton was a stay-at-home defenseman. Maybe the best ever and played in an era where defensemen didn't rush the puck. It's apples and oranges. Even then, Tim Horton probably had the best offensive playoffs a Leafs defenseman ever had in 61-62, scoring 16 points in 12 games.

He is third in games in 1,099, 88 games shy of George Armstrong?s team leading 1,187."

Huh. So the list goes:

1. George Armstrong
2.
3. Borje Salming.

Who do you suppose is #2 on that list? I'll give you three guesses but I'm betting you'll get it in one.

 

[maplesyrup]

1. George Armstrong
2.
3. Borje Salming.

Who do you suppose is #2 on that list? I'll give you three guesses but I'm betting you'll get it in one.

Well, okay but outside of tasty treats, I'm not sure there's much of a case for Horton. I mean again, we're talking about a 6 team league here when we're talking Horton's accolades. Everything Salming accomplished was in a larger league surrounded by less talent. It's really just a universe of difference there. Now don't get me wrong, Horton was a fine player and like I said earlier, there's probably a few choices than can be made for the "greatest" and far be it from me to tell folks what/how to think. This is just an opinion here that I happen to share with Ulmer. - A good read for anyone interested.