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2025 Offseason Thread: Spring Cleaning

herman said:
Matthews can continue to be captain, but it certainly would be good to get an absolute maniac as his secondary (Gary Roberts-esque)
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I remember when the Alternate Captain was nicknamed "Killer" (Gilmour) And the the Captain's nickname was "Captain Crunch" (Clark). And that was 1993....the best season I've seen the Leafs play. We need a guy like one of those.

Imagine if Dubas never gave away Kadri.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
His contract is going to be for way too much and for way too long. And I think his effectiveness (i.e. ability to do dumb stuff and not get suspended) will significantly diminish the moment he puts on a Leaf jersey.
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I agree with this.

Vinny Viola (and Zito) constructed a gritty and dirty team. And Vinny hired Gregory Campbell to provide cover from NHL Operations for all the dirty play. Cover from referees and cover from DOPS. Of course Gregory's Daddy runs NHL Operations.

Leafs are the opposite. They get suspensions and penalities in amounts that defy the statistics. So a Bennett or Marchand would have problems here.

There are 12 Billion reasons the NHL should tilt the ice for the Leafs. But unless you pound your fist and demand it.... you wont get it.

It comes down to how important winning is to you. If you are not ready to win at all costs.... your best might be top 8 out of 32....or top 16 out of 32. Not 2nd....and never ever 1st.

Winning is for winners.
 
ZBBM said:
I won't beat this to death with further posts beyond this one, but I posted elsewhere that it's insane that the NHL allows a completely different set of rules to govern the playoffs — rules designed to stifle skilled players. And not only that, a further subset of rules that only apply in G7 ... where only the most trivial of penalties get called.

THAT. IS. LITERALLY. INSANE.

So to your comments azzurri I'd just suggest that we all be careful with language:

1. These players win — a lot — when the actual rules govern the games: in the regular season. They have made the playoffs what, 8 or 9 years in a row. Pretty easily in most of those years.
2. Your second sentence, azzurri, reinforces my point above. The question is, why does the NHL not only allow it to happen, but encourages it? There is this weird superstructure of intangible Hockey Culture that the league cedes the officiating to. I admit that The Code and all the unwritten (intermittent) rules are what make the game fascinating. But they are hard for some players to navigate.

Playoff failure doesn't mean a player is a loser. Sometimes it means that their skills/playstyle just don't mesh the kind of game the league, for some unfathomable reason, wants to promote in its tournament.

The whole thing is nuts.
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This is a great post and I agree with it almost entirely. I’ll be honest, and this is comfortably the least engaged I’ve been in a Leafs season in years. And when you consider the lengths I’ve gone to over the years to watch games I think it’s telling. I didn’t watch a playoff game live. I haven’t even been on here in about 2 weeks.

And why is that?

Well to me, the NHL has really done a good job with the regular season. The rule changes post 2005ish lockout opened the game up massively and the speed and skill and some of the skilled hockey we see now is incredible. The Leafs are lucky to have players like Matthews and Marner to watch.

But for some reason those rules go out the window in the playoffs. The NHL allows things to revert to what feels like pre 2005 hockey where those same skilled players are stifled. Yes, some can still manage to get above it, but they shouldn’t have to. The manner of the playoffs and the grind is still going to be more intense naturally because of the manner of playing 7 game series even if the games are called like regular season games.

So why has this got me less engaged with the Leafs? Well cos the Leafs have had to go out and hire a coach who coaches a style of game that they hoped would be a success for a potential 16-28 games. And by doing so they destroyed the entertainment value of their other 82 games in terms of watchable, entertaining hockey.

I don’t blame the Leafs for doing so. But the NHL really needs to sort itself out. It’s a competive sports market out there and I don’t think they do themselves any favours.

Edit to add: I’ve not watched any other playoff games either. In fact I’m barely keeping track other than to check scores and where series are every few days.
 
I'm on the fence, I think we should run it back. We did it last year and the most credible team to win the Cup since the Matthews era. We tweaked the run it back and they came close to getting to the ECF. But maybe, getting rid of some of the core 4 and adding might make a difference. I want JT back and that's the only player I would like back.
 
To be clear, I'm not against a shake-up. I believe this team has the talent to win a cup; but the fact is they haven't gotten out of the 2nd round. There's also an opportunity with huge cap space if Marner and Tavares go.

A big however.......this year's free agent crop is garbage. The best players are......Marner and Tavares. This team doesn't have assets to trade. They don't have assets to offer sheet an RFA. Two Sam Bennett's aren't replacing M and T.
 
Arn said:
This is a great post and I agree with it almost entirely. I’ll be honest, and this is comfortably the least engaged I’ve been in a Leafs season in years. And when you consider the lengths I’ve gone to over the years to watch games I think it’s telling. I didn’t watch a playoff game live. I haven’t even been on here in about 2 weeks.

And why is that?

Well to me, the NHL has really done a good job with the regular season. The rule changes post 2005ish lockout opened the game up massively and the speed and skill and some of the skilled hockey we see now is incredible. The Leafs are lucky to have players like Matthews and Marner to watch.

But for some reason those rules go out the window in the playoffs. The NHL allows things to revert to what feels like pre 2005 hockey where those same skilled players are stifled. Yes, some can still manage to get above it, but they shouldn’t have to. The manner of the playoffs and the grind is still going to be more intense naturally because of the manner of playing 7 game series even if the games are called like regular season games.

So why has this got me less engaged with the Leafs? Well cos the Leafs have had to go out and hire a coach who coaches a style of game that they hoped would be a success for a potential 16-28 games. And by doing so they destroyed the entertainment value of their other 82 games in terms of watchable, entertaining hockey.

I don’t blame the Leafs for doing so. But the NHL really needs to sort itself out. It’s a competive sports market out there and I don’t think they do themselves any favours.

Edit to add: I’ve not watched any other playoff games either. In fact I’m barely keeping track other than to check scores and where series are every few days.
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Great post Arn, and not just because you agree with me (smart as that is). Boldface above.

The intensity of games in the playoffs generates all the excitement, not the quality of play. The acceptance of injuries as the price you have to pay to win is also stone-cold crazy.

The league REALLY needs new leadership. Bettman should have retired years ago. Whoever comes next really does need to sort things out, as you said. Hint: all you have to do is get the owners together, tell them that the officiating will no longer be different in the playoffs, which will give more teams a chance to advance further, increase entertainment value, grow the game beyond the hardcore fans who spend all their free time on hockey websites, and, utlimately, make them richer. Done and done.
 
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CarltonTheBear said:
Yeah Lorentz is a weird one. I knew he wasn't the most physical player in the world, especially since it's tough to play that way throughout an 82-game season, but I really expected him to stay up in that regard in the playoffs. For a guy his size wish he was a little meaner.
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Did you see him fight enough said.
 
ZBBM said:
Great post Arn, and not just because you agree with me (smart as that is). Boldface above.

The intensity of games in the playoffs generates all the excitement, not the quality of play. The acceptance of injuries as the price you have to pay to win is also stone-cold crazy.

The league REALLY needs new leadership. Bettman should have retired years ago. Whoever comes next really does need to sort things out, as you said. Hint: all you have to do is get the owners together, tell them that the officiating will no longer be different in the playoffs, which will give more teams a chance to advance further, increase entertainment value, grow the game beyond the hardcore fans who spend all their free time on hockey websites, and, utlimately, make them richer. Done and done.
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On your injury point. In what way is it any benefit to anyone (well, except Florida I guess) to have the best players like Stolarz taken out of series by injuries that would be less likely to happen if players who were causing said injuries were being properly dealt with within the already existing rules. Actually penalising players for these things might have the impact of causing them to happen less often.

Surely the league wants the best to be playing the best.

Best players available = best chance of really entertaining close games.
 
In terms of pure entertainment I’d want Marner back.

I fear that the narrative driven mostly by media and lapped up by a large number of fans means he won’t be.

I know you can’t be going out tapping players up, but I’d be trying to find out via whatever back channels you can if there’s any chance McDavid wants to come to Toronto when his Edmonton deal ends (my gut feeling is he wouldn’t) and I’d take a year of mediocrity next season to wait for that if there’s a chance he would.
 
Bullfrog said:
To be clear, I'm not against a shake-up. I believe this team has the talent to win a cup; but the fact is they haven't gotten out of the 2nd round. There's also an opportunity with huge cap space if Marner and Tavares go.

A big however.......this year's free agent crop is garbage. The best players are......Marner and Tavares. This team doesn't have assets to trade. They don't have assets to offer sheet an RFA. Two Sam Bennett's aren't replacing M and T.
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The UFA crop does kinda suck this year, but there are more years after this one.
 
Bill_Berg said:
The Leafs wil finally build a playoff team and the rules will change to use regular season rules in the playoffs just to screw us lol.
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It's funny but we did have an elite, run and gun team and then all of a sudden the playoffs started turning into WWE cage matches...and to exacerbate that issue, our guys were the only ones getting suspended..How do the Leafs combat this? Adding the likes of Bennett, Marchand and/or Ekblad only increases the likelihood of a) more suspensions and b) more disparity in officiating (to the Leafs' detriment). I seriously have no clue how this team can compete.
 
Arn said:
In terms of pure entertainment I’d want Marner back.

I fear that the narrative driven mostly by media and lapped up by a large number of fans means he won’t be.

I know you can’t be going out tapping players up, but I’d be trying to find out via whatever back channels you can if there’s any chance McDavid wants to come to Toronto when his Edmonton deal ends (my gut feeling is he wouldn’t) and I’d take a year of mediocrity next season to wait for that if there’s a chance he would.
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Media narrative? He was offered 8x$13+ in the middle of the season and he said no. He's not coming back because he doesn't want to come back. I wouldn't put this on some sort of narrative.
 
Bender said:
Media narrative? He was offered 8x$13+ in the middle of the season and he said no. He's not coming back because he doesn't want to come back. I wouldn't put this on some sort of narrative.
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Source? That was pure speculation driven by the media, aka Dreger. Anything with the words "I Think" is not a source.
 
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