2011 Blue Jays/MLB Thread

[bustaheims]

While I see your point but mine has more to do with bringing in a great bat in the lineup at SS while filling a hole at 2B.... Though KJ could pan out in which case I clearly forget about Reyes.

In the extremely unlikely event that the Jays sign Reyes, he'd be the one moving over to 2B, not Escobar. SS is the more important defensive position, and the difference between the two defensively is significantly in Escobar's favour.

 

[maplesyrup]

While I see your point but mine has more to do with bringing in a great bat in the lineup at SS while filling a hole at 2B.... Though KJ could pan out in which case I clearly forget about Reyes.

In the extremely unlikely event that the Jays sign Reyes, he'd be the one moving over to 2B, not Escobar. SS is the more important defensive position, and the difference between the two defensively is significantly in Escobar's favour.

I'd be fine with that scenario too. 

 

[maplesyrup]

I'd just rather have All-Star (or near All-Star) players at each position than settle on a scrub or "scrap."

Ok, but A) that's not terribly realistic as even the best teams have areas of weakness and B) the Jays have a budget and blowing a huge chunk of it on a marginal upgrade doesn't make a ton of sense when they already have a terrific SS.

True... Well, the "best possible players" was more to the point anyway. 

 

[Derk]

I hate the Jays bullpen. Janssen this time gives up a 4-3 lead in the 7th after Romero was pulled with 2 outs. Romero not happy that he got yanked and 3 batters later it is 6-4.

 

[Deebo]

I hate the Jays bullpen. Janssen this time gives up a 4-3 lead in the 7th after Romero was pulled with 2 outs. Romero not happy that he got yanked and 3 batters later it is 6-4.

If Romero didn't hit Granderson and walk A-rod, there would have been no problem.

The bullpen has been brutal this year, but this one is on Ricky as much as it on Janssen. McCoy and Wise didn't really help out either.

 

[Kin]

True... Well, the "best possible players" was more to the point anyway.

Which is where having a budget comes in. Spending the kind of money it would cost to land Reyes would be a terrible use of the team's money. I mean, now you're advocating giving 100+ million to a guy with a 105 career ops+ who'd be playing out of position.

Reyes is basically this year's Carl Crawford. He's having a career year to inflate his value but he's still a player who relies a great deal on speed. Giving a player like that a deal that extends into their mid 30's is sketchy in the best of circumstances, when it represents an extremely marginal upgrade it's indefensible.

Compare the difference there to the need the Jays have in the rotation, bullpen, 1B, DH and I think how they should spend their money becomes pretty clear.

 

[Deebo]

Compare the difference there to the need the Jays have in the rotation, bullpen, 1B, DH and I think how they should spend their money becomes pretty clear.

I wonder if we are content going into next year with Johnson at 2B.

 

[maplesyrup]

Compare the difference there to the need the Jays have in the rotation, bullpen, 1B, DH and I think how they should spend their money becomes pretty clear.

So what if Rogers says "Okay, AA. Go spend some money" but the upgrades (for the most part) aren't there at the positions you outline (which I agree are priorities) and there is money left to burn? Assuming you can get Reyes, do you still settle as you say for a "scrap" at 2B when you can insert Reyes? I think I take Reyes.

 

[maplesyrup]

I wonder if we are content going into next year with Johnson at 2B.

I think that's the million dollar question right now.

 

[bustaheims]

I wonder if we are content going into next year with Johnson at 2B.

Considering the fact that there's pretty much nothing available in free agency outside of getting someone to change positions and the fact that Jays don't appear to be looking to contend in  2012, I think giving Johnson a chance to see if he can return to his 2007/2008/2010 type numbers is a more than acceptable.

 

[bustaheims]

So what if Rogers says "Okay, AA. Go spend some money" but the upgrades (for the most part) aren't there at the positions you outline (which I agree are priorities) and there is money left to burn? Assuming you can get Reyes, do you still settle as you say for a "scrap" at 2B when you can insert Reyes? I think I take Reyes.

There's a very defensible argument that can be made that an Escobar-Johnson middle infield could just as much, if not more, to the team than one of Escobar-Reyes, and would do so for much less money.

 

[maplesyrup]

There's a very defensible argument that can be made that an Escobar-Johnson middle infield could just as much, if not more, to the team than one of Escobar-Reyes, and would do so for much less money.

Sure... and I'd be happy if that was the case. However, Johnson could just as easily say "thanks but no thanks" or, Johnson (as with Hill) has his best days behind him.

 

[Kin]

So what if Rogers says "Okay, AA. Go spend some money" but the upgrades (for the most part) aren't there at the positions you outline (which I agree are priorities) and there is money left to burn? Assuming you can get Reyes, do you still settle as you say for a "scrap" at 2B when you can insert Reyes? I think I take Reyes.

Well, there are two problems there. The first is that the idea that there aren't any upgrades available for a pitching staff or to DH is basically saying there aren't any competent free agents at all. That's not a terribly realistic scenario.

But after that, I mean, is Rogers saying that Anthopolous has this money to spend and if he doesn't spend it this off-season it goes away for ever? Because if there aren't good options to spend the money right now then you can tuck it away and wait a year or see if you can spend the money via trades.

The Blue Jays are never going to have money "to burn". There will always be a budget. The issue will be whether you'd go with someone cheaper at 2B and putting that extra money into the draft, into Latin America and on and on.

 

[Kin]

There's a very defensible argument that can be made that an Escobar-Johnson middle infield could just as much, if not more, to the team than one of Escobar-Reyes, and would do so for much less money.

Especially when draft picks figure into the discussion. If the Jays are desperate to upgrade at second base then they can look to trade for one. It won't cost them 100 million dollars or draft picks.

 

[maplesyrup]

Well, there are two problems there. The first is that the idea that there aren't any upgrades available for a pitching staff or to DH is basically saying there aren't any competent free agents at all. That's not a terribly realistic scenario.

Actually, I think its very realistic (if not a distinct probability) that we don't find an upgrade for Lind at 1B or E5 at DH. Pitching, well yeah.

 

[maplesyrup]

There's a very defensible argument that can be made that an Escobar-Johnson middle infield could just as much, if not more, to the team than one of Escobar-Reyes, and would do so for much less money.

Especially when draft picks figure into the discussion. If the Jays are desperate to upgrade at second base then they can look to trade for one. It won't cost them 100 million dollars or draft picks.

Yeah, I guess another trade is possible too.

 

[bustaheims]

Sure... and I'd be happy if that was the case. However, Johnson could just as easily say "thanks but no thanks" or, Johnson (as with Hill) has his best days behind him.

It's also equally possible that this rough season is as much of an aberration as Reyes' production this year - especially considering how well Johnson has performed since suiting up for the Jays. I recognize that it's a very small sample size, but, it's beginning to look like Johnson may have just been in a rut that the coaching staff in Arizona couldn't help him with and that he needed a change of scenery to get his mind right.

What really concerns me RE: Reyes is how far out of sync some of his numbers are with his career averages, especially being that he's doing so in a contract season. Now, it could be that, like Bautista last season, something has just clicked in for him this season, but, it's more likely that this season is an aberration and he'll go back to being the slightly above average bat he's been for most of his career while provide sub-replacement level defence and diminishing speed/injury prone legs.

 

[Kin]

Actually, I think its very realistic (if not a distinct probability) that we don't find an upgrade for Lind at 1B or E5 at DH. Pitching, well yeah.

Encarnacion's WAR right now is 1.0, Lind's is .8. The idea that there isn't a player in baseball available as a FA who could exceed those numbers and who would take a free agent deal in Toronto does not strike me as realistic in the slightest. We're talking barely above replacement level here.

 

[bustaheims]

Encarnacion's WAR right now is 1.0, Lind's is .8. The idea that there isn't a player in baseball available as a FA who could exceed those numbers and who would take a free agent deal in Toronto does not strike me as realistic in the slightest. We're talking barely above replacement level here.

Especially considering this might be the best off season in a long time for 1B/DH types in free agency. Pujols, Fielder, Pena, Cuddyer, Kubel and Ortiz could all be on the market and all could provide an upgrade (though, in some cases, a marginal one). Though, with Encarnacion's 2nd half, I'd have to seriously consider giving him a full season as DH - especially since the Jays have a very affordable option year available with him.

 

[Kin]

Especially considering this might be the best off season in a long time for 1B/DH types in free agency. Pujols, Fielder, Pena, Cuddyer, Kubel and Ortiz could all be on the market and all could provide an upgrade (though, in some cases, a marginal one). Though, with Encarnacion's 2nd half, I'd have to seriously consider giving him a full season as DH - especially since the Jays have a very affordable option year available with him.

You could probably talk me into another year of Encarnacion on the team. What I'd have a bit of a problem with though is keeping him around as a plan A or, at the least, without a quick hook and a very good plan B in the wings. He's hit well in the second half. He still needs to be able to hit like an AL East DH all season long and I don't know how realistic that is.