2012 CBA Negotiations Thread

[Kin]

I heard they'll cancel 2 weeks at a time every 2 weeks. I'm guessing they'll probably burn the entire season if nothing is done by the holidays.

Could they even get a season started in two weeks?

 

[bustaheims]

Could they even get a season started in two weeks?

Short camp, no exhibition games . . . maybe postpone a few of the earlier games instead of cancelling them.

 

[maplesyrup]

I heard they'll cancel 2 weeks at a time every 2 weeks. I'm guessing they'll probably burn the entire season if nothing is done by the holidays.

The 40 or so game point was where the put the kibosh on last time, so, I imagine it would be the same here - which would put the last chance date in late January.

Yeah, I was figuring around the halfway mark.

 

[Frank E]

"I'm going to continue to skate with the guys," Ryan told the New Jersey Courier-Post. "Whether it's coming back here (to South Jersey) for a couple weeks at a time. I think it's important to stay here (in the United States) and be part of the solution and not just run from it."

-Ducks' Bobby Ryan

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=406772

And so it begins...

 

[maplesyrup]

I can't say I agree with Ryan. He's entitled to his beliefs but IMO, a player who decides to play overseas isn't running from anything.

 

[bustaheims]

I can't say I agree with Ryan. He's entitled to his beliefs but IMO, a player who decides to play overseas isn't running from anything.

Well, he's right in that the players who have left to play over seas aren't really being part of the solution.

 

[Kin]

Well, he's right in that the players who have left to play over seas aren't really being part of the solution.

Realistically though no player is going to be an active part of any solution. Bobby Ryan isn't going to be in the boardroom negotiating this deal. A player's only real responsibility is to stay informed, keep in touch with other players and voice their opinions to other members. It's not like those things are any less possible in Geneva than they are in New Jersey.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Every team has reps/stewards for the union. Those are the only players that are involved in actual discussions. The other 600 or so players, like nik said, aren't part of the solution, other than voting when the union leaders decide there's a proposal worth voting on. Until that time, their responsibility is to stay informed, but at the same time, stay in game shape, and ready to go when one does get presented.

 

[Leafaholic99]

One thing I don't understand is how players going overseas are scabs?

This isn't necessarily a strike, it's a lockout for one thing and wouldn't they only be scabs if they played for the NHL during a strike?

The players going overseas are no different then any other union worker being on strike (if you want to call the lockout a strike), finding a second job during the time off from their primary job.

 

[maplesyrup]

Well, he's right in that the players who have left to play over seas aren't really being part of the solution.

Realistically though no player is going to be an active part of any solution. Bobby Ryan isn't going to be in the boardroom negotiating this deal. A player's only real responsibility is to stay informed, keep in touch with other players and voice their opinions to other members. It's not like those things are any less possible in Geneva than they are in New Jersey.

Exactly. Moreover, I think the more guys who find jobs elsewhere, the better as far as the players go. - Less pressure on them and more on the owners. 

 

[Rebel_1812]

The owners however are looking at franchise values that can be affected by $40-$50 million bucks if they can get a CBA that?ll dial back their labour by 20% and get a bunch of them out of the red operationally.  That?s a lot of cake to hang tight for, and plenty of incentive to wait them out.  Hell, I'd wager at this point, half the teams in the league likely won?t lose much more money by shutting down for the year.  They think this lockout is worthwhile, so long as they can rely on the fans coming back when it?s over?and they likely will.

The Stewardship of the Game!

They thought those same things last lockout.  And yet despite getting everything they wanted in the deal they still seem to be losing money.  Sooner or latter they have to stop pointing fingers elsewhere and realize they don't know how to run a business or analyze a market.

 

[Hampreacher]

Fse who have season tickets paid they should demand a refund and not playoff tickets. In fact they should ask their season tickets be refunded and when settle will buy then, maybe. And secondly they should appear at the gate. Then the city would have to deploy crowd control as for a regular game. The fans and cities would put pressure on NHL to negotiate.

 

[Bullfrog]

They thought those same things last lockout.  And yet despite getting everything they wanted in the deal they still seem to be losing money.  Sooner or latter they have to stop pointing fingers elsewhere and realize they don't know how to run a business or analyze a market.

Though this is a simplistic point of view, I think there is a small bit of truth to it. It's similar to my personal situation. Boss "can't afford" to give a raise right now. Well, if he even remotely ran the business properly, there'd be plenty for everyone.

 

[Rebel_1812]

They thought those same things last lockout.  And yet despite getting everything they wanted in the deal they still seem to be losing money.  Sooner or latter they have to stop pointing fingers elsewhere and realize they don't know how to run a business or analyze a market.

Though this is a simplistic point of view, I think there is a small bit of truth to it. It's similar to my personal situation. Boss "can't afford" to give a raise right now. Well, if he even remotely ran the business properly, there'd be plenty for everyone.

Sounds like something the shareholders should know about ;-)

 

[Deebo]

From reading the comments from individual players, I am starting to see that the players have made this thing personal whereas its all business for Bettman and the NHL.

I think this will hurt the current players financially in the long run, if they continue to operate it in this manner.

 

[jdh1]

From reading the comments from individual players, I am starting to see that the players have made this thing personal whereas its all business for Bettman and the NHL.

I think this will hurt the current players financially in the long run, if they continue to operate it in this manner.

I agree with you there.I'm sure the players can see the empty seats in a lot of cities where they play.

 

[crazyperfectdevil]

From reading the comments from individual players, I am starting to see that the players have made this thing personal whereas its all business for Bettman and the NHL.

I think this will hurt the current players financially in the long run, if they continue to operate it in this manner.

But you think Fehr himself has made it personal?  Because other than that I'm not sure it really means much.  After all the owners only have to keep the lid on like 30 people to seem cohesive the nhlpa represents all of the players so i think the numbers are somewhat skewed as far as opinions that make their way to the fans.

 

[Frank E]

Martin St. Louis, 37, of the Tampa Bay Lightning remarked that he feels cheated this time around after the players gave up so much in the 2004-05 lockout.

"For a regular guy, it's hard," St. Louis told the Tampa Bay Times. "But it's not so much about the money. It's about getting a fair deal. Last time, we got hosed. We built the game back up with how hard the guys worked. We're trying to work in [the owners'] direction. We just don't see the same coming back our way."


http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2012/10/hockey-players-lash-out-after-games-cancelled.html

I have trouble believing these sorts of statements because 1.  The deal resulted in the highest ave. salary for NHL players ever, and 2.  It was such a raw deal that the players have suggested that they'd sign up to leave everything exactly the same if they could?

 

[Kin]

2.  It was such a raw deal that the players have suggested that they'd sign up to leave everything exactly the same if they could?

Because the Players, seemingly exclusively, have a genuine interest in the NHL operating. If they went in and countered the NHL's proposal with one with no cap or fixed link between salaries and revenues we'd be talking about another situation where there was no room to negotiate and one side or the other broke. The fact that the players are pragmatic enough not to do that doesn't mean they don't want those things.

People forget what salaries were like pre 2004-2005. Bobby Holik made more per year than Sidney Crosby does today.

 

[Frank E]

2.  It was such a raw deal that the players have suggested that they'd sign up to leave everything exactly the same if they could?

Because the Players, seemingly exclusively, have a genuine interest in the NHL operating. If they went in and countered the NHL's proposal with one with no cap or fixed link between salaries and revenues we'd be talking about another situation where there was no room to negotiate and one side or the other broke. The fact that the players are pragmatic enough not to do that doesn't mean they don't want those things.

Well, I would counter by saying that the owners aren't looking to change the landscape either.  They'll still end up doing guaranteed contracts, and the highest % of revenues of any of the major league sports.

People forget what salaries were like pre 2004-2005. Bobby Holik made more per year than Sidney Crosby does today.

Well, still the highest overall total amount of money going to player payroll ever.

But I think we agree that a cap on the highest paid player is silly.