2015 NHL Entry Draft

[pmrules]

It sounds like we will be very lucky to get either Strome or Marner, whichever one falls to us.

This is the biggest dilemma - if Hanifin goes 3rd, who do the Leafs take.  If the skill level is considered to be the same, I'm on board with Strome - the Leafs should take the guy with the size and the guaranteed centre.  But I don't know if the skill level is necessarily the same from what I've read.  If Marner truly is more skilled, then we should take him all day long.  It's an interesting and great problem to have.  Marner's speed vs. Strome's size might be the deciding factor.

The obvious answer of course is to get that 2nd top 5 pick.  ;D

 

[CarltonTheBear]

This is the biggest dilemma - if Hanifin goes 3rd, who do the Leafs take.  If the skill level is considered to be the same, I'm on board with Strome - the Leafs should take the guy with the size and the guaranteed centre.  But I don't know if the skill level is necessarily the same from what I've read.  If Marner truly is more skilled, then we should take him all day long.  It's an interesting and great problem to have.  Marner's speed vs. Strome's size might be the deciding factor.

The obvious answer of course is to get that 2nd top 5 pick.  ;D

If I knew for sure that Marner was a centre, or I mean if the Leafs had every intention of using him as a centre, I'd take him. If not, I'd lean towards Strome. I know drafting for position is somewhat frowned upon especially this early, but with how close these guys likely are I think it's acceptable. Centre's are just that much more valuable to a NHL team.

 

[Kin]

If I knew for sure that Marner was a centre, or I mean if the Leafs had every intention of using him as a centre, I'd take him. If not, I'd lean towards Strome. I know drafting for position is somewhat frowned upon especially this early, but with how close these guys likely are I think it's acceptable. Centre's are just that much more valuable to a NHL team.

Obviously this could conceivably throw a monkey wrench into the works but if that's all true then wouldn't it make a lot of sense to just draft Marner and then have him spend the next couple years in junior or the AHL learning how to be a Center?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Obviously this could conceivably throw a monkey wrench into the works but if that's all true then wouldn't it make a lot of sense to just draft Marner and then have him spend the next couple years in junior or the AHL learning how to be a Center?

Yeah that's kind of what I meant when I said if the Leafs intend to use him as a centre. But if they all just feel like Marner would be better suited as a winger in the NHL then you wouldn't really want to try and squeeze a square peg into a round hole. Obviously though that's a pretty tough estimation to make with a 17-year old player. But yes even if it takes a couple of years like it did with Seguin, if the Leafs feel like his long-term future in the NHL is down the middle then I'd be a lot more comfortable taking him over Strome.

 

[rdowdall]

Is it just me, or does this draft seem to be a bit on the smallish side?  Not that it's a bad thing as it looks like most of the players talked about in the first round have a high skill level.

 

[Kin]

Is it just me, or does this draft seem to be a bit on the smallish side?  Not that it's a bad thing as it looks like most of the players talked about in the first round have a high skill level.

Something to keep in mind there is that a lot of the heights and weights you might have seen listed could be out of date or poorly sourced. When these guys get measured at the scouting combine I'd bet most of them are taller/heavier than listed.

 

[moon111]

If the Leafs were to acquire Edmonton's 16th overall pick.  Who would you want to draft at that position?
Phaneuf + Connor Brown for Darnell Nurse and 16th overall.

 

[Kin]

If the Leafs were to acquire Edmonton's 16th overall pick.  Who would you want to draft at that position?
Phaneuf + Connor Brown for Darnell Nurse and 16th overall.

Before or after you released Peter Chiarelli's family?

 

[rdowdall]

Is it just me, or does this draft seem to be a bit on the smallish side?  Not that it's a bad thing as it looks like most of the players talked about in the first round have a high skill level.

Something to keep in mind there is that a lot of the heights and weights you might have seen listed could be out of date or poorly sourced. When these guys get measured at the scouting combine I'd bet most of them are taller/heavier than listed.

True and they still have some growing to do.  I'd have to go back and see what other draft years had in terms of listed size.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

If the Leafs were to acquire Edmonton's 16th overall pick.  Who would you want to draft at that position?
Phaneuf + Connor Brown for Darnell Nurse and 16th overall.

Why in the world would you move Connor Brown?

Top OHL scorer, top AHL rookie scorer.

The Leafs have an abysmal group of forward prospects outside the top 3/4, now is not the time to be giving up one of their best.

 

[L K]

If the Leafs were to acquire Edmonton's 16th overall pick.  Who would you want to draft at that position?
Phaneuf + Connor Brown for Darnell Nurse and 16th overall.

Before or after you released Peter Chiarelli's family?

William Nylander + 23rd overall for Andrej Sekera and Paul Ladue

 

[Kin]

William Nylander + 23rd overall for Andrej Sekera and Paul Ladue

Maybe, but only if Sekera is willing to sign a 6 year/42 million dollar deal first.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

If the Leafs were to acquire Edmonton's 16th overall pick.  Who would you want to draft at that position?
Phaneuf + Connor Brown for Darnell Nurse and 16th overall.

Before or after you released Peter Chiarelli's family?

William Nylander + 23rd overall for Andrej Sekera and Paul Ladue

No way is LA moving PaLa

 

[Kin]

Idle question I suppose but does anyone else think that there's a really solid possibility that one of Marner or Strome might be available at #6?

Maybe I'm overthinking it but before the lottery if you'd asked me if there was any one team that would be near the top of the draft who should pick in part for need it would have been the Oilers picking a defenseman. It's why we all assumed finishing with the #4 pick meant Strome.

Now that they're going to take McDavid though...doesn't this apply just as well to the Hurricanes? Think about it:  They've got Skinner, Semin and Jordan Staal locked up for multiple years(and it seems unlikely that Eric Staal will leave). They spent a top 5 pick on Elias Lindholm two years ago. Their only legitimate returning blueliner is Justin Faulk. To top it off they've only drafted one defensemen in the top 2 rounds in the last three years.

I appreciate that consensus seems to suggest a drop-off in value between, say, Marner and Provorov but Carolina seems well suited to make that gamble.

Anyways, something to think about if Kessel does get dealt for #6.

 

[pmrules]

Idle question I suppose but does anyone else think that there's a really solid possibility that one of Marner or Strome might be available at #6?

Maybe I'm overthinking it but before the lottery if you'd asked me if there was any one team that would be near the top of the draft who should pick in part for need it would have been the Oilers picking a defenseman. It's why we all assumed finishing with the #4 pick meant Strome.

Now that they're going to take McDavid though...doesn't this apply just as well to the Hurricanes? Think about it:  They've got Skinner, Semin and Jordan Staal locked up for multiple years(and it seems unlikely that Eric Staal will leave). They spent a top 5 pick on Elias Lindholm two years ago. Their only legitimate returning blueliner is Justin Faulk. To top it off they've only drafted one defensemen in the top 2 rounds in the last three years.

I appreciate that consensus seems to suggest a drop-off in value between, say, Marner and Provorov but Carolina seems well suited to make that gamble.

Anyways, something to think about if Kessel does get dealt for #6.

I think Carolina (#5) is in a similar conundrum as New Jersey (#6), where they may consider dealing the pick.  Both those team need to decide if they are vying for the playoffs or if they are "scorched earth" re-building, like the Leafs/Sabres etc.  It sounds as if NJD are willing to move the 6.  Let's wait and see on Carolina.

One of Marner/Strome/Hanifin might still be available at 6 as there have been rumours/rankings where one of Crouse/Provorov are being taken in the top 5. 

I hope Carolina trades the pick.  I mean, Kessel would look good standing next to Eric Staal in exchange for #5!

 

[Kin]

I hope Carolina trades the pick.  I mean, Kessel would look good standing next to Eric Staal in exchange for #5!

With Semin currently looking like a major boat anchor it seems pretty unlikely that they'd use any more of their cap space/resources on an older, one-way winger. Might be a Phaneuf landing spot though.

 

[pmrules]

I hope Carolina trades the pick.  I mean, Kessel would look good standing next to Eric Staal in exchange for #5!

With Semin currently looking like a major boat anchor it seems pretty unlikely that they'd use any more of their cap space/resources on an older, one-way winger. Might be a Phaneuf landing spot though.

The horrible rumour I saw was Kessel and Kadri for #5 and Semin or something like that. 

Just horrible.

 

[Kin]

The horrible rumour I saw was Kessel and Kadri for #5 and Semin or something like that. 

Just horrible.

I don't think that makes much sense but something your post made me think of was along these lines:

To Carolina: Dion Phaneuf, Stuart Percy
To Toronto: #5, Alexander Semin, Some mid-range prospect

Carolina gets a pretty solid top 4 defenseman and a mid-range D prospect. They also unload a terrible contract. Toronto gets an asset in the #5 pick that's probably significantly better than anything else Phaneuf could fetch by himself.

Semin is the wildcard. He's got three years at 7 per on the books which makes him unappealing to a good team but on the Leafs? Give him a ton of ice time and PP ice time and if he has another productive season...they gain another legit asset for virtually nothing. If they're going to suck anyway...high reward-low risk.

 

[caver]

that may be a structure that they pitch a few teams on for a high pick.

 

[Pick]

You keep mentioning success the team has experienced. What success?

The Stavros years. 4 Conference Finals in 10 years. Players nominated for the Vezina, Hart, Calder and winning the Selke. I genuinely could not have made that any clearer or simpler.

In the last 45+ years I'll bet Leafs performance is in the bottom 33% of the teams that were around in 1971.

As busta expertly pointed out, that's just a function of lousy ownership for the most part. The Blackhawks were in as bad a situation as the Leafs until Bill Wirtz died. The Leafs were terrible under Ballard. That's pretty simple. I really don't get why you feel the Ballard days are still relevant. 

When you begin to realize how badly this team has performed the last 45+ years then you'll begin to understand what I'm saying. I'm starting to believe it's over your head. How old are you? Have you ever worked for a large corporation?

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0000381998.html

They invented this new thing called the internet. Give it a look sometime.

It's easy to say Leafs lost because of sloppy play.

Sure, except I haven't. The Leafs lost because they were poorly put together because they had a general manager working from a terrible playbook. It wasn't "sloppiness". They were a poorly put together team because of impatient ownership which lead to bad drafting and development and a reliance on free agency. They weren't very good, they lost. That's not culture.

The only success this team has had in the last 60 years came off the backs of veteran teams and were run by managers who had the balls to thumb their noses at upper management. That's where the problem lies, with upper management;  and the problems persist from one regime to another -  that's precisely why we call it "culture".

Except, of course, it didn't. I'll make this as easy as I possibly can for you:

Ballard - Bad, No success
Stavros - Good, some success
MLSE - Bad(so far), no success

See? It literally can not be any simpler. Anyone whose head isn't stuck in the past can analyze it pretty clearly and simply. The team can be successful with good ownership that has patience with their hockey people.

You think Fletcher and Quinn were patient? Quite the opposite.
Stavros wasn't any different than any of the other owners. If that era was 'successful' it was because those two guys were able to thumb their noses at the owners.
Fletcher's team was finally dismantled because of pressure from above. Quinn had to fight every year for space in this organization finally lost to Fergy.

I question why you continue to oppose the proposal that characteristics present in ownership before the Ballard era persist today. Just in the last week or so I find articles in the media that discuss "culture change"; or refer to "a unique dynamic in Toronto"; or a player's time in Toronto described as "...his confidence was drained...he was a shadow of himself...". This has been going on for 45+ years. You don't even have to read between between the lines.

You keep talking about success, coming in second place isn't success. The Selke, imo does not rate anywhere as high or as prestigious as the Hart, Norris or Art Ross. You're looking through blue-tinted glasses if you see success there.

I defend my proposal and it's based on experience I gained watching all the regimes I write about. You're picking at it without having the same experience, or so it seems to me. You come off as a young person who has to prove something.

I'll tell you a story about experience, and I'll use your reference to the Titanic:

Just recently the local papers ran a story about a survivor of the Titanic tragedy. He was 10 years old when it happened. He finally made it to the US where he would live until he died.

He lived his life close enough to an MLB stadium that he could here the cheers. He never went to a game, preferring instead to leave the neighborhood because those cheers reminded him of the screams he heard during that tragedy at sea.

I'm certain that the cheers often heard at major sporting events never discouraged you from going to a Blue Jay's game.

Your 'knowledge' is not as deep as you think it is. Take what my experience has taught me and learn from it.

You seem to be the type that has to have the last word. You don't like anybody telling you something. It's a personality thing that you should be concerned about.