AHL to impose new Fighting Rules

[TBLeafer]

I can't see a general AHL section, so I'll just put this here:

So go for a skate before you drop the gloves?

Stop fighting after 9 fights, unless you are instigated upon?

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Funny, Rich Clune had this to say about it on his Twitter account:

Save you reporters some time. The 10 fight limit and no fighting off the face-off rule is great. Fighting isn't done, just guys who suck are

? Rich Clune (@richclune) July 7, 2016

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/twigs/2016/7/7/12122838/the-ahl-is-changing-its-fighting-rules-and-rich-clune-likes-it

.... but the tweet is since deleted.

 

[seahawk]

Looks pretty similar to the rules in the OHL. They've had it for a couple years and it hasn't killed all fights.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Looks pretty similar to the rules in the OHL. They've had it for a couple years and it hasn't killed all fights.

Nobody is trying to get fighting down to 0% though. From what I remember the results from the OHL rule change was pretty promising in at least getting fighting numbers down.

 

[McGarnagle]

Sounds like a good start. Knowing what we know now about CTE, I take no pleasure in watching the professional goons; they're pretty much out of the game at the NHL level, but still tend to hang around the AHL. This will help, and further changes can gradually cut it down further.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Hopefully at least, it'll curb the staged fights.

Not everyone likes the new rules, while others do:

TYSON NASH  @TysonNash
I remember the days if u could play & put up 10 tilts per year u would earn big pay day. Now it's a suspension

Paul Bissonnette  @BizNasty2point0
Good. Get rid of the goons.

Pat Maroon  @patmaroon@BizNasty2point0 @mirtle I think this is terrible for the game. How can you try and take out fighting?
 


Story:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/ahl-announces-new-rules-fighting-1.3669645

 

[Bullfrog]

So Pat Maroon is a buffoon. I can think of no other contact team sport where fighting is even remotely tolerated. Bare-knuckle fighting by professional athletes is a ridiculous concept.

I don't think the rules went far enough. Given how few players actually hit 10 fights in a year, it's going to have very little impact. The rule against staged fights is good though.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

My favourite thing is how some people act as if fighting wasn't already against the rules in the NHL.

 

[Kin]

So Pat Maroon is a buffoon. I can think of no other contact team sport where fighting is even remotely tolerated. Bare-knuckle fighting by professional athletes is a ridiculous concept.

I don't think the rules went far enough. Given how few players actually hit 10 fights in a year, it's going to have very little impact. The rule against staged fights is good though.

Intellectually you're right but it's a bigger deal than just Maroon. Throughout the years whenever Bettman's been asked about banning fighting one of the things he's always said, and something that I think he's being honest about, is that they get major pushback from the players.

 

[bustaheims]

My favourite thing is how some people act as if fighting wasn't already against the rules in the NHL.

It's given a more serious punishment than most infractions, but the fact that there are in-game punishments for it rather than being an instant ejection and supplemental discipline - like it is in pretty much any other sport - make it against the rules in a "part of the game" capacity, like hooking, tripping, etc.

That being said, I'm all for taking it out completely. Other than providing something that speaks to our primal instincts, as far as I'm concerned, it really adds nothing to the game itself.

 

[Kin]

That being said, I'm all for taking it out completely. Other than providing something that speaks to our primal instincts, as far as I'm concerned, it really adds nothing to the game itself.

Obviously your mileage may vary but after watching a largely goonless league the last few years I think it's hard to deny fighting added a distinct additional narrative to the game and some colourful personalities in a sport that's badly lacking in them. For the same reason that I think some of the best sports writing ever is about boxing, fighting in hockey definitely added some flavour to the game regardless of your feelings on face punching.

 

[TBLeafer]

That being said, I'm all for taking it out completely. Other than providing something that speaks to our primal instincts, as far as I'm concerned, it really adds nothing to the game itself.

Obviously your mileage may vary but after watching a largely goonless league the last few years I think it's hard to deny fighting added a distinct additional narrative to the game and some colourful personalities in a sport that's badly lacking in them. For the same reason that I think some of the best sports writing ever is about boxing, fighting in hockey definitely added some flavour to the game regardless of your feelings on face punching.

Agreed. It added another flavour for sure and isn't CTE also rampant in Football?

Contact sport has serious health risks.

People are surprised by that?

I can't wait until the first class action lawsuit happens by ex UFC fighters suffering long term health effects.

 

[Kin]

Agreed. It added another flavour for sure and isn't CTE also rampant in Football?

Contact sport has serious health risks.

People are surprised by that?

I think people are surprised by the extent to which things like CTE ruins lives which is definitely not something that was part of hockey's culture even 10-15 years ago and it's affected the way we watch the game. The lawsuits, which I think are valid, are about that gap between a basic understanding of "health risks" and the harsh realities of brain damage and how it manifests itself. Likewise, I think a lack of proper medical care is a real issue. Eric Lindros was widely criticized and even mocked for wanting to be cautious about concussions while his team was all but calling him a crybaby for it. The NHL should get sued for not being more on the ball.

I'm not defending fighting here. As much as I liked aspects of it I can't read the stories I read about what it does to people and think my entertainment should be more important. I just think that if we're going to get it out of the game, it should be with a real acknowledgement of what's being given up.

 

[TBLeafer]

Agreed. It added another flavour for sure and isn't CTE also rampant in Football?

Contact sport has serious health risks.

People are surprised by that?

I think people are surprised by the extent to which things like CTE ruins lives which is definitely not something that was part of hockey's culture even 10-15 years ago and it's affected the way we watch the game. The lawsuits, which I think are valid, are about that gap between a basic understanding of "health risks" and the harsh realities of brain damage and how it manifests itself. Likewise, I think a lack of proper medical care is a real issue. Eric Lindros was widely criticized and even mocked for wanting to be cautious about concussions while his team was all but calling him a crybaby for it. The NHL should get sued for not being more on the ball.

I'm not defending fighting here. As much as I liked aspects of it I can't read the stories I read about what it does to people and think my entertainment should be more important. I just think that if we're going to get it out of the game, it should be with a real acknowledgement of what's being given up.

On the other side of that, I think players who can play are what's important.  There never was a need for 'goons'.  My favourite all time Leafs player is Wendel Clark.  Probably always will be.  He was no goon.  Shanahan was no goon.  Scott Stevens was no goon.  Gordie Howe was no goon.

Its players like that, that need to be kept around the sport, not your Colton Orr's of the world.  Players like that are what make this game great.

Players like that still need to be allowed into the game and there should still be a place in the game for them.  Its just that now, for new ones coming in, they do so knowing potential long term risk.

 

[Kin]

On the other side of that, I think players who can play are what's important.  There never was a need for 'goons'.  My favourite all time Leafs player is Wendel Clark.  Probably always will be.  He was no goon.  Shanahan was no goon.  Scott Stevens was no goon.  Gordie Howe was no goon.

Its players like that, that need to be kept around the sport, not your Colton Orr's of the world.  Players like that are what make this game great.

That seems like a bit of a strawman. I don't think anyone is advocating getting rid of Gordie Howe. Likewise, I don't think that players like that "made the game great" in a way that less physical but still highly skilled players didn't. All of those players would have been compelling, exciting players to watch without fighting.

Its just that now, for new ones coming in, they do so knowing potential long term risk.

I think the league's responsibility extends beyond simply making sure players have a vague concept of the risks involved(none of them are likely to be doctors). I think they also probably need to create an environment where fighting is generally discouraged in locker rooms as well as at GM meetings. I don't think it's fair to say to someone "Hey, you don't have to do this very dangerous thing...I mean, your job is on the line sure but you can always look for another line of work".

 

[TBLeafer]

That seems like a bit of a strawman. I don't think anyone is advocating getting rid of Gordie Howe. Likewise, I don't think that players like that "made the game great" in a way that less physical but still highly skilled players didn't. All of those players would have been compelling, exciting players to watch without fighting.


I think the league's responsibility extends beyond simply making sure players have a vague concept of the risks involved(none of them are likely to be doctors). I think they also probably need to create an environment where fighting is generally discouraged in locker rooms as well as at GM meetings. I don't think it's fair to say to someone "Hey, you don't have to do this very dangerous thing...I mean, your job is on the line sure but you can always look for another line of work".

As previously noted, fighting has always been penalized, but the less strict penalties, than baseball (although how many players get suspended during a dugout clearing?), basketball, soccer, football, but that's HOCKEY.

Boxers shouldn't get in the ring, due to the knowledge that there's a good chance they could receive a few repeated punches to the head?

UFC fighters shouldn't step onto the octagon for the same reason?

Race car driver's shouldn't race because it's the most lethal sport in the world?

These are the accepted risks that make our sport, our sport.

 

[Bullfrog]

So Pat Maroon is a buffoon. I can think of no other contact team sport where fighting is even remotely tolerated. Bare-knuckle fighting by professional athletes is a ridiculous concept.

I don't think the rules went far enough. Given how few players actually hit 10 fights in a year, it's going to have very little impact. The rule against staged fights is good though.

Intellectually you're right but it's a bigger deal than just Maroon. Throughout the years whenever Bettman's been asked about banning fighting one of the things he's always said, and something that I think he's being honest about, is that they get major pushback from the players.

That doesn't surprise me. But aside from the interesting-personality aspect that you discuss, I see no benefit to the game, tangible or otherwise.

Do you recall the reasons given by the players? I'd be curious to try to understand them.

 

[TBLeafer]

So Pat Maroon is a buffoon. I can think of no other contact team sport where fighting is even remotely tolerated. Bare-knuckle fighting by professional athletes is a ridiculous concept.

I don't think the rules went far enough. Given how few players actually hit 10 fights in a year, it's going to have very little impact. The rule against staged fights is good though.

Intellectually you're right but it's a bigger deal than just Maroon. Throughout the years whenever Bettman's been asked about banning fighting one of the things he's always said, and something that I think he's being honest about, is that they get major pushback from the players.

That doesn't surprise me. But aside from the interesting-personality aspect that you discuss, I see no benefit to the game, tangible or otherwise.

Do you recall the reasons given by the players? I'd be curious to try to understand them.

Us player/coaching types understand how high emotions can get in such a high adrenaline sport, like hockey.  As far as team sports go, the pace is unlike any other.  It's literally the fastest team sport in the world, unless you count bobsledding.

Its easy for casual fans that never played the game to sit back and snub their noses at it.

Bettman needs to go and a former hockey personality, not a lawyer, needs to be put in his place!

 

[Kin]

That doesn't surprise me. But aside from the interesting-personality aspect that you discuss, I see no benefit to the game, tangible or otherwise.

Do you recall the reasons given by the players? I'd be curious to try to understand them.

Whenever I've read surveys on it players don't tend to say anything we haven't heard before. You know the cliches of fighters actually making the game safer and "fans love fighting!" and so on.

 

[Kin]

As previously noted, fighting has always been penalized, but the less strict penalties, than baseball (although how many players get suspended during a dugout clearing?), basketball, soccer, football, but that's HOCKEY.

Boxers shouldn't get in the ring, due to the knowledge that there's a good chance they could receive a few repeated punches to the head?

UFC fighters shouldn't step onto the octagon for the same reason?

Race car driver's shouldn't race because it's the most lethal sport in the world?

These are the accepted risks that make our sport, our sport.

An argument from tradition is a pretty transparent fallacy but besides that there's a fundamental difference here. Whether or not we think we need to re-evaluate the future of motor or combat sports in the future, the truth is they can't really exist in their current form absent the danger the participants face.

The same is not true in hockey. Fighting isn't integral to the sport. You can still have hockey without fighting. Mike Babcock, who we all like having as our coach, has led the way in showing us that the arguments for it's utility/necessity are largely bogus. There's really no credible way to argue that it wouldn't work on a league-wide scale with a rule similar to how baseball/basketball deal with fighting.