Avalanche @ Leafs - Oct. 14th, 7:30PM - TSN4, Fan 590

[bustaheims]

This is the new "we're not concerned about year 1."

Yup. Thankfully, in this case, they don't have to worry about years 4-7.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Paul Hendrick ‏@HennyTweets  9m ago
Defence
Phaneuf-Robidas
Rielly-Franson
Percy-Polak

Reimer
#TMLTalk

So no changes to the D at practice. Still possible Gardiner plays though.

 

[bustaheims]

jonasTSN1050: Would appear that Gardiner will get back in tonight. Percy getting extra work with Peter Horachek this morning.

jonasTSN1050: No extra skating for Percy. Still ultimately unclear who sits on defence.

Percy's been pretty good, but, a game in the press box every now and then won't hurt him (as long as it doesn't happen too frequently) and Gardiner has got to get back in.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Percy's been pretty good, but, a game in the press box every now and then won't hurt him (as long as it doesn't happen too frequently) and Gardiner has got to get back in.

If the team is dead-set on using 3 lefties and 3 righties then they may as well send Percy back to the AHL, it's going to happen sooner rather than later. He won't/shouldn't get playing time over Phaneuf/Rielly/Gardiner. He's been impressive so far, but not exactly perfect. Let him be the top dog with the Marlies for a season and bring him up when injuries hit. Then re-evaluate the defence in the summer (although I still don't see how he'll get in then if Phaneuf stays on the team/on the left side).

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Percy's been pretty good, but, a game in the press box every now and then won't hurt him (as long as it doesn't happen too frequently) and Gardiner has got to get back in.

If the team is dead-set on using 3 lefties and 3 righties then they may as well send Percy back to the AHL, it's going to happen sooner rather than later. He won't/shouldn't get playing time over Phaneuf/Rielly/Gardiner. He's been impressive so far, but not exactly perfect. Let him be the top dog with the Marlies for a season and bring him up when injuries hit. Then re-evaluate the defence in the summer (although I still don't see how he'll get in then if Phaneuf stays on the team/on the left side).

Pretty much, and I didn't think Percy was very good on Sunday.  Behindthenet.ca has the possession stats from only the first 2 games and Gardiner looks good from that perspective through two games (funny enough so does Polak).  But at this point, just play Gardiner.  He's not allowed to have 1 or 2 bad games (arguably 'bad')?  He had the most ES minutes on the team last season, how much more does he have to play to get the benefit of the doubt?

EDIT: And I would argue Franson made more glaring turnovers on Sunday than Gardiner had combined in games 1 and 2, ditto for Polak.

 

[crazyperfectdevil]

put gardiner back in after a loss..i'm sure he won't have to wait long

 

[Frank E]

Percy's been pretty good, but, a game in the press box every now and then won't hurt him (as long as it doesn't happen too frequently) and Gardiner has got to get back in.

If the team is dead-set on using 3 lefties and 3 righties then they may as well send Percy back to the AHL, it's going to happen sooner rather than later. He won't/shouldn't get playing time over Phaneuf/Rielly/Gardiner. He's been impressive so far, but not exactly perfect. Let him be the top dog with the Marlies for a season and bring him up when injuries hit. Then re-evaluate the defence in the summer (although I still don't see how he'll get in then if Phaneuf stays on the team/on the left side).

Pretty much, and I didn't think Percy was very good on Sunday.  Behindthenet.ca has the possession stats from only the first 2 games and Gardiner looks good from that perspective through two games (funny enough so does Polak).  But at this point, just play Gardiner.  He's not allowed to have 1 or 2 bad games (arguably 'bad')?  He had the most ES minutes on the team last season, how much more does he have to play to get the benefit of the doubt?

EDIT: And I would argue Franson made more glaring turnovers on Sunday than Gardiner had combined in games 1 and 2, ditto for Polak.

On the flip side, Carlyle and co. have used this sitting method for Gardiner in the past, and it seems to work.

The team awarded him a big contract, and have certainly given him big minutes in the past...so it's not like they're hindering his development or holding him back.

I thought he looked awful those first couple of games, and I know he can play a whole lot better than that, so I don't really have a problem with them using Percy over him for a game or 2.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Percy's been pretty good, but, a game in the press box every now and then won't hurt him (as long as it doesn't happen too frequently) and Gardiner has got to get back in.

If the team is dead-set on using 3 lefties and 3 righties then they may as well send Percy back to the AHL, it's going to happen sooner rather than later. He won't/shouldn't get playing time over Phaneuf/Rielly/Gardiner. He's been impressive so far, but not exactly perfect. Let him be the top dog with the Marlies for a season and bring him up when injuries hit. Then re-evaluate the defence in the summer (although I still don't see how he'll get in then if Phaneuf stays on the team/on the left side).

Pretty much, and I didn't think Percy was very good on Sunday.  Behindthenet.ca has the possession stats from only the first 2 games and Gardiner looks good from that perspective through two games (funny enough so does Polak).  But at this point, just play Gardiner.  He's not allowed to have 1 or 2 bad games (arguably 'bad')?  He had the most ES minutes on the team last season, how much more does he have to play to get the benefit of the doubt?

EDIT: And I would argue Franson made more glaring turnovers on Sunday than Gardiner had combined in games 1 and 2, ditto for Polak.

On the flip side, Carlyle and co. have used this sitting method for Gardiner in the past, and it seems to work.

The team awarded him a big contract, and have certainly given him big minutes in the past...so it's not like they're hindering his development or holding him back.

I thought he looked awful those first couple of games, and I know he can play a whole lot better than that, so I don't really have a problem with them using Percy over him for a game or 2.

Awful is really stretching it.  While he may not have been at his best, he was hardly awful, or at least no more awful than the rest of the team if I give you that.

I just don't get why he gets scratched for a bad game when it happens to all of the D all of the time.  Think Polak is getting scratched for a sub-par game?  Let the guy play through it.  It seems to be an entirely different handling of Gardiner compared to other players and it's very odd. 

EDIT: I also don't want Gardiner to become a player afraid that every mistake he makes is going to risk him being healthy scratched from the lineup.

 

[ZBBM]

Gardiner doesn't need to be shielded from a benching.  But with this team as sketchy as it is, what needs to happen for benchings to be effective is that Carlyle apply whatever poor-play standard he's using to every player on the roster.  After all, if Reimer starts tonight, he'll have applied it to Bernier, won't he?  Earn you icetime.

 

[Deebo]

EDIT: I also don't want Gardiner to become a player afraid that every mistake he makes is going to risk him being healthy scratched from the lineup.

He played 80 games in 2013/14, I'm sure he made mistakes in more than 2 games.

 

[Coco-puffs]

link

Stuart Percy still has the best possession stats among the defensemen.  Hard to take him out of the lineup.  Cody Franson, in a game where the Leafs were dominant, still managed to have a very poor game possession-wise along with Reilly:

http://war-on-ice.com/game.html?mansit=2&scoresit=1&shotattsit=&seasongcode=2014201520033

And, as for those saying Robidas and Polak aren't playing any better than Jake- they have similar possession stats but Gardiner and Rielly are getting sheltered minutes: 65-70% Offensive Zone Start Percentage.  The rest of the defensemen are near 40%. 

As for the forwards... everyone was happy to see the top line put the puck in the net.  Yet, they were still a combined -31 on shot attempts 5on5 against the Rangers. 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

EDIT: I also don't want Gardiner to become a player afraid that every mistake he makes is going to risk him being healthy scratched from the lineup.

He played 80 games in 2013/14, I'm sure he made mistakes in more than 2 games.

You are correct, he likely made mistakes in more than 2 games.

 

[freer]

EDIT: I also don't want Gardiner to become a player afraid that every mistake he makes is going to risk him being healthy scratched from the lineup.

He played 80 games in 2013/14, I'm sure he made mistakes in more than 2 games.

You are correct, he likely made mistakes in more than 2 games.

Why change the line up from the one that won. Play it until it loses, then adjust.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

And, as for those saying Robidas and Polak aren't playing any better than Jake- they have similar possession stats but Gardiner and Rielly are getting sheltered minutes: 65-70% Offensive Zone Start Percentage.  The rest of the defensemen are near 40%. 

Basically all the D on the team other than Polak were at 52% or higher in zone starts heading into the Rangers game.  Which is why I've brought up Gardiner's season a year ago and how well he did relative to other D on the team in having a positive possession effect - and as I've said I don't think having a subpar one or two games should result in being scratched when you have a bigger sample like that to look at.

But maybe he'll play maybe he won't.  Dead horse at this point.

 

[Deebo]

EDIT: I also don't want Gardiner to become a player afraid that every mistake he makes is going to risk him being healthy scratched from the lineup.

He played 80 games in 2013/14, I'm sure he made mistakes in more than 2 games.

You are correct, he likely made mistakes in more than 2 games.

Then he shouldn't be afraid of being scratched after every mistake.

 

[Highlander]

Perhaps if he played a bit more like a guy named Subban.

 

[sickbeast]

I think it's great that reimer is getting the start tonight. I'm really hoping that he will win the #1 job back. He's such a class act. I'm pleasantly surprised that Carlyle is going back to him.

 

[azzurri63]

And, as for those saying Robidas and Polak aren't playing any better than Jake- they have similar possession stats but Gardiner and Rielly are getting sheltered minutes: 65-70% Offensive Zone Start Percentage.  The rest of the defensemen are near 40%. 

Basically all the D on the team other than Polak were at 52% or higher in zone starts heading into the Rangers game.  Which is why I've brought up Gardiner's season a year ago and how well he did relative to other D on the team in having a positive possession effect - and as I've said I don't think having a subpar one or two games should result in being scratched when you have a bigger sample like that to look at.

But maybe he'll play maybe he won't.  Dead horse at this point.

All goes back to where we were when Carlyle got here. Favoritism. His handling of some players is horrible and unfortunately Gardiner is one of them. I haven't been able to watch a full game this year so I can't say if he's been the worse d-man out there but doesn't surprise me he's getting the shaft from Carlyle. Team is still being run like a peewee team. Don't understand the treatment this guys getting for the last 2 seasons. if I was him I would of asked to be traded. He's been benched to untouchable to benched to untouchable and then this off season gets the new deal. Let the poor kid play. He's not the only one who makes mistakes. Honest to god feel this teams brain trust is no better than when Ballard ran this gong-show. Team knows how to ruin players confidence. He'll be the next one shipped off only to thrive elsewhere.

 

[Strangelove]

The fact that the team is sitting Gardiner, their best possession defenseman (and almost certainly their best defenseman, full stop) speaks volumes about how completely out to lunch Randy really is. Team has trouble retaining possession and offensive pressure? Ignore the numbers and take Gardiner out. That is how Randy thinks.

 

[bustaheims]

jonasTSN1050: Gardiner not taking line rushes, but appears Robidas will slide down the lineup.

jonasTSN1050: Pairs in warm-up: Phaneuf-Franson. Percy-Polak. Rielly-Robidas.

Unless this is patented Randy Carlyle "deception," it looks like Gardiner is out of the lineup again tonight.