Bettman

[Frank E]

I'm no fan of publicly funded stadiums, at all really, but come on, they'd waste that money somewhere else.  And it's really not that much money spent on these things, relative to revenues.

What revenues? The revenues the teams make? Because economist after economist has said that the supposed "revenues" generated for cities don't justify the money cities put into them, that basically any other civic investment yields better returns.

Other than that, if cities didn't hand out millions to billionaires for stadiums those millions could be better spent. That they always aren't isn't really a counterpoint there because both of those things are symptoms of the same fundamental problem.

No, I meant government tax revenues...nothing to do with stadium revenues.

What I was showing in the link was that there are many egregious wastes of money, among them owning/financing/subsidizing stadiums.  But that the money would instead end up treating people in hospitals is a silly statement. 

 

[Kin]

No, I meant government tax revenues...nothing to do with stadium revenues.

What I was showing in the link was that there are many egregious wastes of money, among them owning/financing/subsidizing stadiums.  But that the money would instead end up treating people in hospitals is a silly statement.

No, it's a factual statement. Absent bad civic investment, local government would have more money for things like hospitals and given that local governments do spend money on those things then logically it follows that some of that money would go to those things.

Even if you wanted to argue that it would go instead to another civic investment, again, most other civic investments have better returns and those returns, again partially, would go into things like municipal services.

I don't know much about the G7 summit and the logistics of hosting it. I guess that strikes me as a "waste" even though I think the arguments put forth are pretty reasonable for why they did it that way. I mean, after all, I figure that even if those cars sit and rust as oppose to being resold that's just direct investment in local businesses that sell those cars, right? So I'm not sure how much waste there is there when all is said and done.

But again, saying "Giving huge subsidies to billionaires to build stadiums is a bad and wasteful use of government money" is not de facto making the argument that all government spending is optimal and I think it's pretty disingenuous to suggest it is. I'm certainly not making the case that indefensible corporate welfare is limited to sports, just that it's bad in sports and the architects of it shouldn't be applauded for it.

 

[Bates]

Using that why exactly would he be Inducted if he just does what the owner's want?  He gets credit as he is driving the bus, he gets booed because he is driving the bus.

Because, what he's done in his position as commissioner goes far beyond representing the BoG in CBA negotiations. He pushed for and largely directed the league's expansion through the 90s and early 2000s - which has largely been a success, he's played a significant role in helping to increase the league's revenue, etc. He doesn't just do what the owners want, but, the things he gets blamed for are when he's largely in the position, whereas the positive things he's done are a much more mixed bag.

Of course but as a Leaf fan he has overseen the Cap and 3 lockouts, easy to see a reason to boo. As an Arizona fan certainly harder to see a reason to.