Burke Fired

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I liked Burke as the Leaf GM. Some did not care for his bluster, but he laid the foundations that can be built upon. The team he took over was used to parachuting in veterans just to end up in  10th place in the conference. The team has a decent core and some young help and it is Burke's work. I think Nonis will do a fine job but bringing Colton Orr back up and picking up MacLaren off waivers are not game-changing moves. This year's team that is starting to look like the best team Toronto has had in years is all Burke.

I'm mostly in this camp. Burke's "bluster" never bothered me before, when he was in the role as GM, so it doesn't play a huge part in me judging or grading his job after the fact.

I guess you have to say he was a failure, although it doesn't seem that way to me. I wasn't sure where the expectations were at for him while he was here. It seemed like for the most part, he was building long term, but his words and what he did at the start of his tenure made it appear that he was in a hurry. His work can be seen on the ice right now and in the future, so the final story is incomplete for me.

 

[Kin]

When Burke was fired, DGB had a comment in his blog that said it all. He noted that the prospect pool was in a lot better shape than how he found it because it would have been impossible to make it any worse (I'm paraphrasing).

Yeah, it's really hard for me to read it any other way. Like, saying "This is the best Leafs team in years" might be true but, again, all you're doing is saying it's outpacing the teams JFJ put together. This team isn't better than the Quinn teams so, again, JFJ can't be the measurement by which success is determined.

And I think that this team's success has maybe a bit more to do with Burke not being around than people think. I suppose people might be quick to give a lot of the credit to Carlyle and point out that he was a Burke hire but to me it really just highlights how much time Burke wasted getting repeated examples of how Wilson was the wrong coach for the team. Likewise people might point out Fraser or Holzer or Kostka as big parts of it but Holzer was a JFJ pick and the other two guys are the perfect example of guys who were available at any time during the last few years if Burke was willing to put Komisarek in the press box.

Honestly, I think this team's good start(and right now that's all it is) is really more of a testament to how Burke was ultimately not successful here. He did some good things, sure, but ultimately not enough to turn the Leafs into a playoff team.

 

[rdowdall]

When Burke was fired, DGB had a comment in his blog that said it all. He noted that the prospect pool was in a lot better shape than how he found it because it would have been impossible to make it any worse (I'm paraphrasing).

Yeah, it's really hard for me to read it any other way. Like, saying "This is the best Leafs team in years" might be true but, again, all you're doing is saying it's outpacing the teams JFJ put together. This team isn't better than the Quinn teams so, again, JFJ can't be the measurement by which success is determined.

And I think that this team's success has maybe a bit more to do with Burke not being around than people think. I suppose people might be quick to give a lot of the credit to Carlyle and point out that he was a Burke hire but to me it really just highlights how much time Burke wasted getting repeated examples of how Wilson was the wrong coach for the team. Likewise people might point out Fraser or Holzer or Kostka as big parts of it but Holzer was a JFJ pick and the other two guys are the perfect example of guys who were available at any time during the last few years if Burke was willing to put Komisarek in the press box.

Honestly, I think this team's good start(and right now that's all it is) is really more of a testament to how Burke was ultimately not successful here. He did some good things, sure, but ultimately not enough to turn the Leafs into a playoff team.

He tripped over his standards at a time when this team needed to set standards, not abide by them.

 

[Highlander]

most fights, most hits in the league right now and the most wins of any Leaf team in years. Testosterone, Truculence and so forth. Burkes words took some time to gel but now it is here. And by the way, why can't a man have some swagger and bluster, makes a character and Burke has plenty of that.  The way he was treated was a sham and should have been given this season before the firing.

Just glad we have a very good man like Nonis in place, his eventual successor in any case.

 

[Kin]

most fights, most hits in the league right now and the most wins of any Leaf team in years.

The difference between the Leafs this year and last year after 18 games is one point.

No, check that. Zero points.

 

[Highlander]

the line between success and failure is usually a very thin one. its the person who does the one more sales call, the extra 5 yards or beating the other guy to the puck that makes the difference.

 

[Zee]

most fights, most hits in the league right now and the most wins of any Leaf team in years.

The difference between the Leafs this year and last year after 18 games is one point.

No, check that. Zero points.

That doesn't tell the entire story.  They were winning early last year but worse defensively.  Almost half a goal a game worse through 18 games.

 

[Kin]

the line between success and failure is usually a very thin one. its the person who does the one more sales call, the extra 5 yards or beating the other guy to the puck that makes the difference.

...alright?

 

[Corn Flake]

That doesn't tell the entire story.  They were winning early last year but worse defensively.  Almost half a goal a game worse through 18 games.

they were basically winning by outscoring opponents each night.  Some goaltending was okay but generally not very good.  the PK was abysmal. 

PK this year is 15th in the league, they have the 8th best GA/G record, and the PP is 16th.  Both goalies are in the top 10 for save % and Scrivens is in the top 10 for GAA. Reimer is 16th. 

Those are all the critical numbers that were league worst most of the year (except maybe the PP, I don't remember) and were the ones that had to improve for this team to be legit.  They have all improved dramatically. 

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

most fights, most hits in the league right now and the most wins of any Leaf team in years.

The difference between the Leafs this year and last year after 18 games is one point.

No, check that. Zero points.

I'm curious as to the goal differential last year vs. this year.

 

[bustaheims]

I'm curious as to the goal differential last year vs. this year.

Last year, at this point, they were -9 (maybe -10 - I might have counted wrong). This year, they're +10.

 

[Kin]

I'm curious as to the goal differential last year vs. this year.

Last year, at this point, they were -9 (maybe -10 - I might have counted wrong). This year, they're +10.

I have -5 vs. +10 but I'm counting SO goals.

 

[Corn Flake]

I'm curious as to the goal differential last year vs. this year.

Last year, at this point, they were -9 (maybe -10 - I might have counted wrong). This year, they're +10.

Speaking of that, it's interesting the difference in GA for the current 8 playoff teams in the East vs. the non-playoff.  For each non playoff team it's almost exactly a 10 goal differential into the negative, with Florida being an exception that is dramatically worse, and Philli not quite that bad (that 7-0 win helped them).

I often find that this simple stat starts to tell the tale of how the playoffs will shape out even if the points are a lot closer. 

 

[bustaheims]

I have -5 vs. +10 but I'm counting SO goals.

That might make up some of the difference. I'm not, since, they're not really representative of defensive play or goaltending. I have 51 ROW goals for and 60 ROW goals against last season. I'm also not sure about your numbers from last season. Even with shootout goals, I'd have it at -8.

 

[Kin]

I have -5 vs. +10 but I'm counting SO goals.

That might make up some of the difference. I'm not, since, they're not really representative of defensive play or goaltending.

No, but I think if we're going to get an accurate picture of how a team played from their goal differential we should probably credit a team that wins with an extra goal. As much as we don't like the shoot-out the ability to perform in one is fairly important to a team's success.

Anyways, the point wasn't that this team and last year's is exactly the same.

 

[bustaheims]

No, but I think if we're going to get an accurate picture of how a team played from their goal differential we should probably credit a team that wins with an extra goal. As much as we don't like the shoot-out the ability to perform in one is fairly important to a team's success.

I don't agree at all. Shootout goals don't help make a more accurate picture of how the team actually played in game. They're imaginary goals that aren't credited anywhere other than the team's totals for tie-breaker purposes. They don't exist anywhere else.

 

[Kin]

I have 51 ROW goals for and 60 ROW goals against last season. I'm also not sure about your numbers from last season. Even with shootout goals, I'd have it at -8.

I have 53 vs. 58. I'm using hockey reference. You?

 

[Kin]

I don't agree at all. Shootout goals don't help make a more accurate picture of how the team actually played in game.

Sure they do. The shootout is a part of the game. A fairly important one.

 

[bustaheims]

I have 53 vs. 58. I'm using hockey reference. You?

Wikipedia. They have the same results, so one of us is adding it up wrong - and, after plugging the numbers into Excel, it's you.

 

[Corn Flake]

NERRRRRRRRRDS!