Capitals @ Leafs - Apr. 4th, 7:30pm - TSN4, TSN 1050

[bustaheims]

So the Leafs should duck the Boston baggage? To me that's the greater test.

How much of this roster really carries that baggage? How many of them are going to be significant pieces moving forward? I feel comfortable in saying the two players who were part of that series who are likely to be long-term Leafs going forward (Kadri and Gardiner) are more than capable of moving past it without having to go through a very different Boston team.

Really, it's the fans that carry that baggage now, not the team. It's a storyline for the media, but that's about it.

 

[puckinthehead]

Only team I'd like to avoid is Ottawa. It's not a logical reason, I just can't stand the sight of that jersey and city after the last 4 series.

 

[wnc096]

This is the first time in while they've been bullied physically like this.

Would be nice to see some pushback, this is playoff hockey, they need to be able to play this type of game when challenged.

They'll have a better second but games like this is where we will struggle and why we have a ways to go to be an upper echelon team. Been saying it for a long time team is lacking some toughness. Although the game has changed I think it's something that is needed. Great to have skilled guys but if you don't have that grit come playoff time you're not sticking around.

Who were Pittsburgh "gritty players"?  letang? Bonino? Phil?

 

[gilmourthegreat]

So the Leafs should duck the Boston baggage? To me that's the greater test.

How much of this roster really carries that baggage? How many of them are going to be significant pieces moving forward? I feel comfortable in saying the two players who were part of that series who are likely to be long-term Leafs going forward (Kadri and Gardiner) are more than capable of moving past it without having to go through a very different Boston team.

Really, it's the fans that carry that baggage now, not the team. It's a storyline for the media, but that's about it.

I think it's the institution that carries the baggage; no aspect of the Leafs (fan, players, media reports) exclusively deals with or exacerbates it. Players who were part of teams which overcame  'curses' often speak of the pressure they felt, notwithstanding that they sometimes weren't alive when the 'curse' began.

To link in Nik's above point, I would say the Caps are a better opponent for their development, but they're likely to get crushed and that won't reveal much immediately. Meanwhile the Bruins are a fairly equal opponent on paper but will come with lots of tough questions and anxious expectations/crowds, so it will be the greater test of the team's mental strength to see how they do.

 

[L K]

Ultimately I don't think it really matters with the leaves play if they can hold onto that playoff spot. It's the experience that's going to be the biggest thing the leafs are either going to be a big surprise team because Matthews Nelander and Martin are going to tear or they're going to get out match because of their less than stellar defense. Whether it's Boston Ottawa for Washington  just getting to feel the playoff atmosphere probably isn't going to change much.

 

[bustaheims]

I think it's the institution that carries the baggage; no aspect of the Leafs (fan, players, media reports) exclusively deals with or exacerbates it. Players who were part of teams which overcame  'curses' often speak of the pressure they felt, notwithstanding that they sometimes weren't alive when the 'curse' began.

I disagree. When it comes to things like how the Leafs struggles and the Bruins were intertwined, you're very much dealing with a specific moment in time. It's isolated. The current coaching staff, management, and most of the players don't have the memories of being involved in it. They don't carry that weight, as it's not their own. Heck, the players that were involved in the transaction that was emblematic of the Boston/Toronto 'conflict' have all moved on to new teams.

"Curses," on the other hand, are more about extended droughts. They're long periods of time that have defined the a franchise for decades. In those cases, players can definitely feel the weight of history, because of the sheer amount of it.

 

[gilmourthegreat]

I think it's the institution that carries the baggage; no aspect of the Leafs (fan, players, media reports) exclusively deals with or exacerbates it. Players who were part of teams which overcame  'curses' often speak of the pressure they felt, notwithstanding that they sometimes weren't alive when the 'curse' began.

I disagree. When it comes to things like how the Leafs struggles and the Bruins were intertwined, you're very much dealing with a specific moment in time. It's isolated. The current coaching staff, management, and most of the players don't have the memories of being involved in it. They don't carry that weight, as it's not their own. Heck, the players that were involved in the transaction that was emblematic of the Boston/Toronto 'conflict' have all moved on to new teams.

"Curses," on the other hand, are more about extended droughts. They're long periods of time that have defined the a franchise for decades. In those cases, players can definitely feel the weight of history, because of the sheer amount of it.

There are certainly differences in scale between a historic drought like the Cubs or Red Sox (or Leafs) experienced and the stigma of the 4-1 collapse; my point was that players can feel the weight of events they weren't around for.

 

[bustaheims]

There are certainly differences in scale between a historic drought like the Cubs or Red Sox (or Leafs) experienced and the stigma of the 4-1 collapse; my point was that players can feel the weight of events they weren't around for.

And, I'd argue that the scenarios you use as support aren't really events. There's no pointing to an individual game or a confrontation with a specific team as causing them to feel the weight of the drought, but, rather, they're feeling the pressure of ending such a significant drought. They feel the pressure of history, not the weight of memory.

The collapse is an isolated moment. It has meaning to those who were there and experienced it. It's not really something people who weren't a part of can truly avenge. A drought, on the other hand, is passed down until it ends. It extends beyond its inception point.

 

[Kin]

How much of this roster really carries that baggage? How many of them are going to be significant pieces moving forward? I feel comfortable in saying the two players who were part of that series who are likely to be long-term Leafs going forward (Kadri and Gardiner) are more than capable of moving past it without having to go through a very different Boston team.

Really, it's the fans that carry that baggage now, not the team. It's a storyline for the media, but that's about it.

I think that's largely ignoring the way these things can manifest. That guys like Bozak or JVR aren't going to be around long term doesn't change the fact that they're on the team now as respected veterans and how they might feel about beating Boston will filter down to other players.

And then even for the younger guys, ignoring someone like Marner who was 15 and in Toronto at the time and so probably has a decent idea of the context, there's no escaping the fact that it was a pretty big deal at the time and quite a few videos of it went viral. Again, everyone will understand the context of the series with or without the media talking about it(which they will).

Will it make a difference? I don't know it would be a huge one but I do think it would shift the goal posts slightly for what might be considered a positive outcome for the team who will probably be facing long odds no matter who they face.

 

[bustaheims]

I think that's largely ignoring the way these things can manifest. That guys like Bozak or JVR aren't going to be around long term doesn't change the fact that they're on the team now as respected veterans and how they might feel about beating Boston will filter down to other players.

And then even for the younger guys, ignoring someone like Marner who was 15 and in Toronto at the time and so probably has a decent idea of the context, there's no escaping the fact that it was a pretty big deal at the time and quite a few videos of it went viral. Again, everyone will understand the context of the series with or without the media talking about it(which they will).

Will it make a difference? I don't know it would be a huge one but I do think it would shift the goal posts slightly for what might be considered a positive outcome for the team who will probably be facing long odds no matter who they face.

I don't know. I guess I just don't see it that way. Outside of the handful of guys still on the roster, the connections are pretty tenuous, and the benefits of being able to "release the Boston baggage" are virtually non-existent from a practical/development POV. I don't see it as a hurdle they have to surpass or a lesson they need to learn (the lessons on how to handle the media will be basically the same regardless of who they face).

 

[Kin]

I don't know. I guess I just don't see it that way. Outside of the handful of guys still on the roster, the connections are pretty tenuous, and the benefits of being able to "release the Boston baggage" are virtually non-existent from a practical/development POV. I don't see it as a hurdle they have to surpass or a lesson they need to learn (the lessons on how to handle the media will be basically the same regardless of who they face).

We may have gotten our wires crossed a little as I'm not saying it'd be good for this team to play Boston so they could exorcise any leftover demons. I'm saying I'd rather they play Washington to avoid the additional baggage although with the caveat that it's not a huge deal either way.

 

[Bullfrog]

Are we overcomplicating things here though? I mean, Washington is probably going to win the President's Trophy and Boston -- like the Leafs -- is barely scraping into the playoffs. Why wouldn't the default be a preference to play the demonstrably inferior team?

 

[Zee]

I just want the Leafs to get in.  I don't care who they play, sure Washington is the superior team, but nobody expected an earlier version of Washington to lose to Montreal like they did (that Halak run).  Upsets can happen, and what better way for the Leafs to announce they're back on the hockey map then to knock off the president's trophy winner in round 1? 

I don't expect the Leafs to win the Cup this year, but I'd like a massive upset playoff series win, that would be great.

 

[bustaheims]

Are we overcomplicating things here though? I mean, Washington is probably going to win the President's Trophy and Boston -- like the Leafs -- is barely scraping into the playoffs. Why wouldn't the default be a preference to play the demonstrably inferior team?

I suppose that depends on what you want out of the playoffs for the team. In terms of the learning experience, it may be better to face the Cup contender. In terms of building confidence, it may be better for them to have a chance to make the 2nd round.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

Are we overcomplicating things here though? I mean, Washington is probably going to win the President's Trophy and Boston -- like the Leafs -- is barely scraping into the playoffs. Why wouldn't the default be a preference to play the demonstrably inferior team?

I suppose that depends on what you want out of the playoffs for the team. In terms of the learning experience, it may be better to face the Cup contender. In terms of building confidence, it may be better for them to have a chance to make the 2nd round.

Facing the Caps in the conference final would provide the best of both worlds. Why choose?  8)

 

[Strangelove]

I'm not reading too much into last night's game. The guys were pretty clearly tired and were playing short-handed most of the game on top of that.

I think Boston could realistically be a tougher playoff match-up. They are unstoppable right now.

 

[Bullfrog]

Are we overcomplicating things here though? I mean, Washington is probably going to win the President's Trophy and Boston -- like the Leafs -- is barely scraping into the playoffs. Why wouldn't the default be a preference to play the demonstrably inferior team?

I suppose that depends on what you want out of the playoffs for the team. In terms of the learning experience, it may be better to face the Cup contender. In terms of building confidence, it may be better for them to have a chance to make the 2nd round.

I remain unconvinced they'd learn any more from playing the Caps and being destroyed then they would by potentially playing two rounds of playoff hockey against any playoff team.

 

[azzurri63]

Are we overcomplicating things here though? I mean, Washington is probably going to win the President's Trophy and Boston -- like the Leafs -- is barely scraping into the playoffs. Why wouldn't the default be a preference to play the demonstrably inferior team?

I suppose that depends on what you want out of the playoffs for the team. In terms of the learning experience, it may be better to face the Cup contender. In terms of building confidence, it may be better for them to have a chance to make the 2nd round.

I like the latter.

 

[Frank E]

Are we overcomplicating things here though? I mean, Washington is probably going to win the President's Trophy and Boston -- like the Leafs -- is barely scraping into the playoffs. Why wouldn't the default be a preference to play the demonstrably inferior team?

I suppose that depends on what you want out of the playoffs for the team. In terms of the learning experience, it may be better to face the Cup contender. In terms of building confidence, it may be better for them to have a chance to make the 2nd round.

I remain unconvinced they'd learn any more from playing the Caps and being destroyed then they would by potentially playing two rounds of playoff hockey against any playoff team.

I agree frog...I think I might even rather them getting smoked by Washington.

 

[Kin]

Are we overcomplicating things here though? I mean, Washington is probably going to win the President's Trophy and Boston -- like the Leafs -- is barely scraping into the playoffs. Why wouldn't the default be a preference to play the demonstrably inferior team?

I'm not going to deny that where I'm coming from may be overthinking things(and even then I've arrived at a small preference for Washington) but we're largely talking about vague notions here. Unless you're talking about the Leafs actually winning the cup then we're talking about whatever psychic benefits the team may derive from losing which is pretty inexact stuff. I don't really think anyone really believes anything as simple as "If they play 12 playoff games instead of 6, that's double the experience points!"

If we are talking about a route to the Leafs actually winning the Cup then I don't think the difference matters much at all.