Captain Phaneuf

[Fanatic]

Nik, for what it is worth, I do recall being at Leafs games and Andy Frost introducing Mats with "and your captain, number 13 Mats Sundin" and it always seemed to get a thunderous applause.

When Dion was introduced as such last week there was almost an empty gasp sound and to me that is what made it seemed forced a bit in that regard.

I do think other captains earned the respect and adotration of fans before wearing the C whereas Dion joined a losing team and was given the C because of Brian and Ron's love for him. He is now earning that respect and adoration after the fact.

I hope he keeps going like I saw him Saturday night. If he does people will accept him pretty quickly.

 

[Corn Flake]

if Phaneuf keeps playing the way he played in the first two games, he is going to be back in Norris Trophy conversations.

 

[Fanatic]

For me, almost anyone would pale in comparison to Sundin as captain, but that's my personal favoritism speaking. 

The exact same thoughts existed, in their time, for #17 and #93 as well and yet people loved Sundin so much that by the time he left the feeling among some was that he was the finest captain ever - I don't think he was, but some certainly do.

 

[Kin]

Nik, for what it is worth, I do recall being at Leafs games and Andy Frost introducing Mats with "and your captain, number 13 Mats Sundin" and it always seemed to get a thunderous applause.

Youtube isn't a ton of help here unfortunately but the one Sundin-containing pre-game I could find here only had him being announced as "#13, Mats Sundin". I'm not arguing with your memory, you may be right, but it's nothing I remember particularly.

 

[ZBBM]

For me, almost anyone would pale in comparison to Sundin as captain, but that's my personal favoritism speaking. 

The exact same thoughts existed, in their time, for #17 and #93 as well and yet people loved Sundin so much that by the time he left the feeling among some was that he was the finest captain ever - I don't think he was, but some certainly do.

Sundin was not accepted by a segment of the fanbase for a long time -- you can guess the likely reason -- and of course a few cranks still refuse to acknowledge that he did an excellent job in that role.

What's unquestionable is that all 3 deserved to be captain based on their play as Leafs.  That's the standard I hold too.  And I hope Phaneuf goes all Norris on us this year so he can join that group.

 

[ZBBM]

Nik, for what it is worth, I do recall being at Leafs games and Andy Frost introducing Mats with "and your captain, number 13 Mats Sundin" and it always seemed to get a thunderous applause.

Youtube isn't a ton of help here unfortunately but the one Sundin-containing pre-game I could find here only had him being announced as "#13, Mats Sundin". I'm not arguing with your memory, you may be right, but it's nothing I remember particularly.

FWIW I find "your captain" cloying (as well as "your Toronto Maple Leafs" ... would that they were, I'd love to be that rich).  What I remember is Mats getting introduced as "the captain, number 13" etc.

 

[cw]

I haven't entirely bought into his captaincy yet. To date, he's sort of been like Rob Ramage as captain - one of the better potential talents on the team who hasn't performed up to expectations or hopes.

I can't fault the team for naming him because they were without a captain for so long. He may well have been the best choice under those circumstances.

Like many Leafs fans, I'll embrace him more as captain when he consistently brings a better performance than he's been able to deliver the last year and a half.

If he plays many of the next 80 games like he played the first two games of this season, that would go a long way to improving my acceptance and respect for his captaincy.

We've talked about how important it is for Reimer to do well. I think the old cliche applies: your best players have to perform like your best players. To date, Dion hasn't really done that - rarely picked as a star in a game during his first one and a half seasons.

As a Leafs fan, I'll support Dion as captain. I just need more from him to really buy in. I don't think that's being unreasonable.

I don't think you necessarily need to be the most talented guy on the team in order to be the captain, and I don't know if having a rough year really means he shouldn't be captain. If he's shown flair for leading the room and giving his all amongst other qualities the staff think are important then I think those are the necessary conditions to be made Captain. And while I think he's good, I don't know if he's the best we could've chosen.

I agree with an earlier post in the sense that there wasn't much time to endear himself to fans before becoming captain. Based on his never say die attitude I would give Grabbo a good look for the C.

I also agree the lack of time with the fans is a fair point. But after a year and a half of underachievement ...

I don't think the captain has to be the best player. George Armstrong hoisted four Cups and was a good captain. Conn Smythe thought he was the best Leafs captain to date at the time.

But I do expect the captain to lead by example on the ice and play somewhere close to his potential. In my opinion, Dion hasn't done that in Toronto .. yet.

 

[Optimus Reimer]

The captaincy of Phaneuf was forced upon us, but that was because there was no real alternative at that time.  Kessel, Kulemin, Grabs etc. are all good players, but I do not see them as captain material at this time.  I also think it was important for the organization to have a captain, to give the team a stabalizing influence.  However, if we were to ask ourselves if Phaneuf deserves to be captain of the Leafs, I would answer that with a definite yes.

 

[anton girdeaux]

Very much agree with CW reference Phaneuf; he can run his mouth off etc, but he has to lead by example and play to his talent level.

 

[Kin]

The captaincy of Phaneuf was forced upon us, but that was because there was no real alternative at that time.  Kessel, Kulemin, Grabs etc. are all good players, but I do not see them as captain material at this time. 

I think the easy and obvious alternative at the time was Kaberle as a sort of stand-in until someone established themselves. Kabs was the only guy on the roster who had a legitimate claim to having earned it as a Maple Leaf.

 

[cw]

I recall Andy Frost referring to Sundin as "your captain" - I could be wrong but I thought he made some sort of reference to his captaincy almost habitually.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

But I do expect the captain to lead by example on the ice and play somewhere close to his potential. In my opinion, Dion hasn't done that in Toronto .. yet.

I would argue he does lead by example on the ice.  Sure, the results haven't been as great as his first few years, but it does not appear to be from lack of trying.  By all accounts he works out hard all summer (so much so that Boyce went to go train with him over the summer), and also by all accounts he practices as hard as anyone on the team.  I don't notice him on the ice not giving 100% in games.  Just because he isn't posting the same numbers, or has had some struggles, I think the younger guys can still see the work he puts into it and learn from it.

 

[cw]

But I do expect the captain to lead by example on the ice and play somewhere close to his potential. In my opinion, Dion hasn't done that in Toronto .. yet.

I would argue he does lead by example on the ice.  Sure, the results haven't been as great as his first few years, but it does not appear to be from lack of trying.  By all accounts he works out hard all summer (so much so that Boyce went to go train with him over the summer), and also by all accounts he practices as hard as anyone on the team.  I don't notice him on the ice not giving 100% in games.  Just because he isn't posting the same numbers, or has had some struggles, I think the younger guys can still see the work he puts into it and learn from it.

When you read, see or hear about all the stories from guys on the fringes of the NHL, most of them don't fall short from a lack of effort. Now, I'd be the first one to agree that the last thing you'd want in a captain is a super skilled lazy guy  who floats and gets by on his talent. So it's to his credit that Dion is making the effort. When you're paying the guy $6.5 mil/yr though, I don't think the team, management, the fans or the league should expect anything less.

I just think a captain should not only lead by example in terms of effort but by example in terms of playing up somewhere close to his potential. A number of other guys on the club are giving 110% with their effort as well. A thing that can distinguish those players from their captain to enhance the chances of them respecting and responding to him as a leader is his success on the ice and the results of his efforts.

I don't see that as an absolute criteria such that the captain must lead the team in scoring or something. George Armstrong is a good example of where he didn't score gobs of points, etc. But George Armstrong wasn't paid crazy dough and expected to score gobs of points either. Armstrong's performances were pretty close to his potential.

When Phaneuf is more consistent and playing closer to the potential we've seen from him in the past, I think he'll be accepted better and respected more as a captain by the management, his team and the fans.

 

[Bonsixx]

If Phaneuf puts up a full season, or even most of one, at the same level he's played the first two games, I really believe that changes EVERYTHING when it comes to expectations for the Leafs this season.

 

[Tigger]

After Dions first few games returning from his nasty injury last year I thought he steadily improved and was a part of the reason the Leafs were so successful in the second half.

He may not have 'earned it' in a Leaf uniform but once the writing was on the wall for Kaberle there really weren't a lot of options in that regard, it's remarkable how few games this group has played in blue and white. One could argue that it wasn't necessary to name anyone captain but of all the candidates he probably made the most sense.

I don't think this will be an issue in a couple months either, Phaneuf seems like a guy who can recognize and grab an opportunity when he sees it.

 

[rdowdall]

If he's the one that has convinced Kessel to back-check, he deserves the "C".

 

[Fanatic]

I think Phaneuf is looking great out there. More than before I get a sense that this is "his team"/ It certainly doesn't hurt to be +8 and have 6 points in the first 5 games.

There are a lot of things to like about the Leafs right now and Phaneuf is one of them.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I think Phaneuf is looking great out there. More than before I get a sense that this is "his team"/ It certainly doesn't hurt to be +8 and have 6 points in the first 5 games.

There are a lot of things to like about the Leafs right now and Phaneuf is one of them.

Even his and Kessel's reaction to the tying goal was amazing to see. I've never seen Phil that excited after he's scored.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I think Phaneuf is looking great out there. More than before I get a sense that this is "his team"/ It certainly doesn't hurt to be +8 and have 6 points in the first 5 games.

There are a lot of things to like about the Leafs right now and Phaneuf is one of them.

Even his and Kessel's reaction to the tying goal was amazing to see. I've never seen Phil that excited after he's scored.

He had 7 hits tonight as well.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I think Phaneuf is looking great out there. More than before I get a sense that this is "his team"/ It certainly doesn't hurt to be +8 and have 6 points in the first 5 games.

There are a lot of things to like about the Leafs right now and Phaneuf is one of them.

Even his and Kessel's reaction to the tying goal was amazing to see. I've never seen Phil that excited after he's scored.