Captain Phaneuf

[maplesyrup]

I'd be shocked if we traded Phaneuf but Pittsburgh's woes on D have me thinking abut a deal with the principles being Phaneuf and Staal.

When they have Letang and Martin already, how does acquiring an offensive-minded d-man, and giving up one of the better defensive centers, help their D woes?

Okay, agreed. Fair point.

 

[maplesyrup]

Basically, the penguins are not going to completely reorganize their team by taking on Phaneuf's 6.5 million contract when they had the 2nd best goal differential and the 4th best defense in the East despite missing Crosby for 80% of the season.

That's fair too.

 

[maplesyrup]

The more I think about it, I just don't see a market for Dion... Which is fine because I still think you can win with him.

 

[puckhog78]

if you guys are talking fantasyland and what you want to happen fine, but if you actually think Deon is going anywhere youll be dissapointed as theres a 100% chance he's a leaf next year.

Well, that's just an absurd statement.

How so?

if posters here are stating what they would do if they were in charge [armchair GM] thats one thing, but if the people in this thread actually think theres a chance phaneuf gets moved and are speculating as to a possible deal, well theyre going to be dissapointed as Deon will assuredly be back in blue and white next year as the organization believes in him.

 

[moon111]

I'm pretty sure Burke would consider all angles.  Some didn't think Fuhr would be traded, but in came this kid Potvin they thought could do the job.  The emergence of Gardiner has to considered.

 

[Spare Change]

Yeah because no one has ever been traded that had a no movement clause. You want rid of someone make Life miserable for them to stay and they will waive quickly.

a player with an NMC is completely 100% untouchable unless he wants to be moved.  If a team actually tried to make a players life miserable the NHLPA would be all over that in a heartbeat.

 

[Bates]

What a crock!  The NHLPA will be able to do nothing with how a player is used. All these guys are professionals and have put a lot into getting where they are. You play them on the fourth line and in the press box for an extended time and I bet you will get a list of acceptable teams. No one likes to be embarassed.

 

[lamajama]

I don't know if its as impossible as you think (re traking phaneuf) Burke did it with beauchemin and versteeg.  Also, to me the most telling thing is that at the year end presser Elliot Friedman asked burke if he had a list of untouchables.  Burke said he had to think about it but that it was a fair question that he would answer it later.

I think that relates to the fact that we finished 5th worst in the league. I think for once BB didn't want to look like an idiot.

 

[Kin]

What a crock!  The NHLPA will be able to do nothing with how a player is used. All these guys are professionals and have put a lot into getting where they are. You play them on the fourth line and in the press box for an extended time and I bet you will get a list of acceptable teams. No one likes to be embarassed.

Good luck ever signing another free agent again if you're not going to honor the spirit of a NMC that you offered to a player and then try to publicly embarrass them.

 

[Bullfrog]

What a crock!  The NHLPA will be able to do nothing with how a player is used. All these guys are professionals and have put a lot into getting where they are. You play them on the fourth line and in the press box for an extended time and I bet you will get a list of acceptable teams. No one likes to be embarassed.

I think the NHL would also have a problem with it. They require teams to ice their best team at all times. Sitting someone who is a top-4 d-man on every team in the league and a top pairing on most is not icing your best team.

While stars have been benched before, it's never for a sustained amount of time, usually just a game or two.

 

[Bates]

I wonder what the NHL and NHLPA DID about guys like Surray and Redden being dumped in the minors???  They can both play in the nhl as Surray showed this season. Neither the nhl or nhlpa have any say on who makes the line-up day in or day out for teams. Neither know what happens in the team atmosphere that warrants the decisions that are made.

 

[princedpw]

What a crock!  The NHLPA will be able to do nothing with how a player is used. All these guys are professionals and have put a lot into getting where they are. You play them on the fourth line and in the press box for an extended time and I bet you will get a list of acceptable teams. No one likes to be embarassed.

Good luck ever signing another free agent again if you're not going to honor the spirit of a NMC that you offered to a player and then try to publicly embarrass them.

Of course there are degrees of embarrassment and degrees of not honoring the spirit of an agreement, but I don't generally believe the line of "if you do X you will never be able to sign a free agent".  I think Philly's treatment of Carter is pretty damn close to not obeying the spirit of the no-trade clause.  They signed Matt Read after that, right?  (that was a question, not an assertion).  Generally, when I think of Philly, that is not the first thing that comes to my mind -- it may not be the first thing that comes to a UFA's mind. 

Likewise with the " you can't send X to the minors otherwise no good UFA will sign here".  If a guy doesn't play well, you can generally use such tactics.  If a guy does play well, then a team doesn't resort to such tactics simply because a guy's presence in the lineup far outweighs the benefits of not having him around.  So, if the leafs were to screw around with, for instance, Komisarek, to get him to accept a trade, I'd be completely fine with that.  However, Burke has never acted in that way... So it doesn't really matter what I think or would do ...

 

[princedpw]

I'm pretty sure Burke would consider all angles.  Some didn't think Fuhr would be traded, but in came this kid Potvin they thought could do the job.  The emergence of Gardiner has to considered.

I also think that given Burke's apparent personality and past behaviour, I would be completely, utterly shocked if Phaneuf was traded.

 

[Rebel_1812]

What a crock!  The NHLPA will be able to do nothing with how a player is used. All these guys are professionals and have put a lot into getting where they are. You play them on the fourth line and in the press box for an extended time and I bet you will get a list of acceptable teams. No one likes to be embarassed.

Good luck ever signing another free agent again if you're not going to honor the spirit of a NMC that you offered to a player and then try to publicly embarrass them.

It has been done before.  UFAs look for money and a chance to win.  Begone stories of mistreatment are kind of low on the list of priorities.

 

[Spare Change]

I wonder what the NHL and NHLPA DID about guys like Surray and Redden being dumped in the minors???  They can both play in the nhl as Surray showed this season. Neither the nhl or nhlpa have any say on who makes the line-up day in or day out for teams. Neither know what happens in the team atmosphere that warrants the decisions that are made.

Neither of which could contribute to their team more so than the players who replaced them. Souray had major injury problems, and he openly demanded a trade, there were no takers. Even after being waived twice (at the beginning of the season and at the trade deadline) no team was willing to bite. Once the season ended Edmonton played the only real card they had... they bought out his contract and made him a free agent.  Souray wanted to leave, Edmonton did not ask him to waive.

What could either the NHL or NHLPA have say about a team sending a player who missed over 50% of a season with serious injuries, and has been a (Edmonton)locker room cancer to the minors?

Redden. Are you referring to when Ottawa tried to trade him and he used his NMC to stay with the team, and continued playing regular shifts until his contract expired?

Or are you referring to New York? Where he put up career lows two straight years, and became an offensive defenseman with no offense to speak of?  Contracts don't gaurantee quality play. Just because he was being paid, doesn't mean he's got a locked in roster spot. Especially when his play declines rapidly after signing the contract.

If Pittsburgh decided it wanted to start fresh, and benched Crosby for a few weeks because he wouldn't accept a trade, heads in this league would roll.

No team owner is going to watch a talented player sit because the GM has an issue and wants to trade him. All he's doing is insulting the jersey he works for, lowering the teams value, the players value and insulting the fans personally by lowering the quality of on ice product.

 

[sneakyray]

I'm pretty sure Burke would consider all angles.  Some didn't think Fuhr would be traded, but in came this kid Potvin they thought could do the job.  The emergence of Gardiner has to considered.

I also think that given Burke's apparent personality and past behaviour, I would be completely, utterly shocked if Phaneuf was traded.

I don't know...like I mentioned earlier in the thread he did trade his 2nd big UFA signee Beauchemin and his 2nd big trade player in versteeg.

I think that if they can land one of the few players that they think can be "the guy" anyone will be on the table.

 

[Erndog]

What a crock!  The NHLPA will be able to do nothing with how a player is used. All these guys are professionals and have put a lot into getting where they are. You play them on the fourth line and in the press box for an extended time and I bet you will get a list of acceptable teams. No one likes to be embarassed.

Good luck ever signing another free agent again if you're not going to honor the spirit of a NMC that you offered to a player and then try to publicly embarrass them.

Dude you of all people should know that's horse poop.

Philly totally blindsided Carter before his NTC kicked in.  Jagr and Bryzgalov didn't have any problems signing there.

Edmonton tried whatever they could to dump Souray, even sending him to the minors for a year.  Eric Belanger and Ben Eager signed this past summer, Smyth couldn't wait to get back there, and nobody is talking about how poor Edmonton looks for treating Souray like dung.

The Rangers threw Redden on a bus 2 years into a 6 year contract.  I don't think Gaborik or Richards give 2 hoots how they treated their big time UFA signing before them.

NJ basically forced Malakhov and Mogilny to retire by trading/sending them to the minors.  Kovalchuk, a fellow Russian, didn't seem to mind signing there.

The Sharks signed Setoguchi and a day later trade him to Minny.  I think San Jose will be alright attracting free agents and/or re-signning there own players.

Ottawa signed Kovalev.  He was repeatedly booed, benched, tatterred and torn in Ottawa.  Don't think Craig Anderson, or Kovy's buddy Sergei Gonchar are having much trouble there.

Carolina signed Thomas Kaberle and half a season in could not WAIT to jettison him.  Tuomo Ruutu and Bryan Allen had no problems re-signing.

Our own Leafs signed Jeff Finger and he was ridiculed throught the GTA... we signed Armstrong, Connolly, Komisarek, Beauchemin, etc soon after.

I could keep going.  And sure these instances aren't exactly alike, no 2 instances are, but it's complete horse poop saying "good luck signing UFAs if you treat one poorly." 

 

[Corn Flake]

What a crock!  The NHLPA will be able to do nothing with how a player is used. All these guys are professionals and have put a lot into getting where they are. You play them on the fourth line and in the press box for an extended time and I bet you will get a list of acceptable teams. No one likes to be embarassed.

Good luck ever signing another free agent again if you're not going to honor the spirit of a NMC that you offered to a player and then try to publicly embarrass them.

Dude you of all people should know that's horse poop.

Agreed.. wait when did Carolina sign Bryan Allen?

edit: I think right-minded players recognize and appreciate teams who are willing to make the moves needed to move the team forward.  Maybe only those players who are all about the paycheque and the contract would be concerned.

 

[bustaheims]

I could keep going.  And sure these instances aren't exactly alike, no 2 instances are, but it's complete horse poop saying "good luck signing UFAs if you treat one poorly."

Not a single one of these instances represent a situation where a team actively "made life miserable for them" (as Bates put it) and made line-up and ice time decisions that weren't in line with on-ice performances. In all these cases, everything was done above board (though, in some cases, on the less than honourable side, sure) and every move that was made was in line with how that particular player was performing. Not one of those players had an organization attempt to unduly pressure them into accepting a move they were not comfortable with when that player had the right to refuse to accept such a move.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

What a crock!  The NHLPA will be able to do nothing with how a player is used. All these guys are professionals and have put a lot into getting where they are. You play them on the fourth line and in the press box for an extended time and I bet you will get a list of acceptable teams. No one likes to be embarassed.

Good luck ever signing another free agent again if you're not going to honor the spirit of a NMC that you offered to a player and then try to publicly embarrass them.

Dude you of all people should know that's horse poop.

Philly totally blindsided Carter before his NTC kicked in.  Jagr and Bryzgalov didn't have any problems signing there.

Edmonton tried whatever they could to dump Souray, even sending him to the minors for a year.  Eric Belanger and Ben Eager signed this past summer, Smyth couldn't wait to get back there, and nobody is talking about how poor Edmonton looks for treating Souray like dung.

The Rangers threw Redden on a bus 2 years into a 6 year contract.  I don't think Gaborik or Richards give 2 hoots how they treated their big time UFA signing before them.

NJ basically forced Malakhov and Mogilny to retire by trading/sending them to the minors.  Kovalchuk, a fellow Russian, didn't seem to mind signing there.

The Sharks signed Setoguchi and a day later trade him to Minny.  I think San Jose will be alright attracting free agents and/or re-signning there own players.

Ottawa signed Kovalev.  He was repeatedly booed, benched, tatterred and torn in Ottawa.  Don't think Craig Anderson, or Kovy's buddy Sergei Gonchar are having much trouble there.

Carolina signed Thomas Kaberle and half a season in could not WAIT to jettison him.  Tuomo Ruutu and Bryan Allen had no problems re-signing.

Our own Leafs signed Jeff Finger and he was ridiculed throught the GTA... we signed Armstrong, Connolly, Komisarek, Beauchemin, etc soon after.

I could keep going.  And sure these instances aren't exactly alike, no 2 instances are, but it's complete horse poop saying "good luck signing UFAs if you treat one poorly."

Plus, there's always the element of a free agent thinking, "it's not a risk or a problem, because I don't suck like those other guys".