Carlyle fired

[freer]

Okay, so lets say the CORSI gets better and the team starts playing better, and starts winning more games then they lose.  Does that mean that it was the coaches fault the whole time?  Or are the Leafs really just back to square one with a flawed roster with no real tools to plug the holes?

Nobody is saying this team will challenge for a Cup. I know that's the ultimate goal but I think almost everyone has accepted that is not a reality for this team. I think most people are suggesting that the team would play better under a different coach, and that remains to be seen.

I can't speak for everyone here, but from my point of view, I'd like to see some playoff hockey and I think, now that Carlyle is out of the way, it's a real possibility for this team. I'm not under any illusions that this team doesn't need to be blown up and start from scratch to be seriously considered a contender, but I don't think that is a realistic option. They're just not going to do it. In the mean time, I'd just like to watch some meaningful hockey played by a team that doesn't bore and frustrate me to death.

Game one starts this evening!

 

[rdowdall]

Okay, so lets say the CORSI gets better and the team starts playing better, and starts winning more games then they lose.  Does that mean that it was the coaches fault the whole time?  Or are the Leafs really just back to square one with a flawed roster with no real tools to plug the holes?

It's not that black and white. No one has ever seriously suggested that it is. If the Leafs possession games significantly improves over the rest of the season, it shows that Carlyle was a major impediment to their success, yes, but, unless they combine that with going deep in the playoffs/winning the Cup, he also wasn't the only one. What it would show is that maybe the team isn't as far away as they have looked for the last season and a half, and that the "core" doesn't need to be blown up, but, rather, massaged, reshaped and upgraded.

But therein lies the problem.  If they win, make it to the playoffs, and win a round, then upper management, the fans and maybe even the media, may start to say "Hey this team could win".  The flaws though will still be there.  The difference between them being a playoff contender and a cup contender is addressing those flaws.  And in order to address those flaws, the most clear and common way is to acquire that talent through high draft picks. 

 

[bustaheims]

But therein lies the problem.  If they win, make it to the playoffs, and win a round, then upper management, the fans and maybe even the media, may start to say "Hey this team could win".  The flaws though will still be there.  The difference between them being a playoff contender and a cup contender is addressing those flaws.  And in order to address those flaws, the most clear and common way is to acquire that talent through high draft picks.

Sure, but, if they get that far (and, let's be honest, that's unlikely), it's a sign that those flaws may not be as deep as some fear. I don't think winning a round or two would fool anyone into thinking the Leafs don't need an upgrade down the middle on the first line or on the blue line. It wouldn't even be a signal that everyone considered to be a core player should be retained - anything short of a Cup, and it'll still be clear that upgrades are required, though sweeping changes may not be. It's only a problem if the team's management is completely clueless, and, with the changes that have been made the front office over the past 6-8 months, I don't think that's the case anymore. With the exception of Nonis, the group that thought the series against Boston was indicative of anything have been replaced, and even Nonis is no longer in a position where he's executing his own vision. He's now trying to put Shanahan's into place, and working on other's plans is something he's shown some competence in doing.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Carlyle speaks (to Rosie DiManno for some reason):

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2015/01/07/randy_carlyle_says_maple_leafs_didnt_tune_him_out_dimanno.html

Nothing really to note though. Didn't throw any of the players under the bus or blame them for anything. Just said they didn't win enough games.

 

[pmrules]

But therein lies the problem.  If they win, make it to the playoffs, and win a round, then upper management, the fans and maybe even the media, may start to say "Hey this team could win".  The flaws though will still be there.  The difference between them being a playoff contender and a cup contender is addressing those flaws.  And in order to address those flaws, the most clear and common way is to acquire that talent through high draft picks.

Sure, but, if they get that far (and, let's be honest, that's unlikely), it's a sign that those flaws may not be as deep as some fear. I don't think winning a round or two would fool anyone into thinking the Leafs don't need an upgrade down the middle on the first line or on the blue line. It wouldn't even be a signal that everyone considered to be a core player should be retained - anything short of a Cup, and it'll still be clear that upgrades are required, though sweeping changes may not be. It's only a problem if the team's management is completely clueless, and, with the changes that have been made the front office over the past 6-8 months, I don't think that's the case anymore. With the exception of Nonis, the group that thought the series against Boston was indicative of anything have been replaced, and even Nonis is no longer in a position where he's executing his own vision. He's now trying to put Shanahan's into place, and working on other's plans is something he's shown some competence in doing.

Anybody who's seen Nylander play, do you think Kadri/Nylander is good enough down the middle in 2-3 years?

I've not seen Nylander play so I'm not sure...

 

[Highlander]

I think they need the big centre 6-4 or 6-5 in the middle. Can Gautier become that guy, he needs to get his offense up a lot. or we need to draft someone quick.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Carlyle being classy and speaking of some family and personal things he's been dealing with in addition to the Leafs: http://www.torontosun.com/2015/01/07/randy-carlyle-opens-up-about-being-fired-by-leafs

 

[hockeyfan1]

Carlyle being classy and speaking of some family and personal things he's been dealing with in addition to the Leafs: http://www.torontosun.com/2015/01/07/randy-carlyle-opens-up-about-being-fired-by-leafs

Classy gentleman, Carlyle.  As a person, he comes across as a thoughtful, insightful (and humorous) individual.  As a coach, he had his shortcomings.

Wish him all the best in life.

 

[freer]

Carlyle being classy and speaking of some family and personal things he's been dealing with in addition to the Leafs: http://www.torontosun.com/2015/01/07/randy-carlyle-opens-up-about-being-fired-by-leafs

Classy gentleman, Carlyle.  As a person, he comes across as a thoughtful, insightful (and humorous) individual.  As a coach, he had his shortcomings.

Wish him all the best in life.

I am sure that he is getting paid out for the rest of his contract. Nothing to complain about. Go home and earn 2+ mil a year.

 

[Zee]

Carlyle being classy and speaking of some family and personal things he's been dealing with in addition to the Leafs: http://www.torontosun.com/2015/01/07/randy-carlyle-opens-up-about-being-fired-by-leafs

Classy gentleman, Carlyle.  As a person, he comes across as a thoughtful, insightful (and humorous) individual.  As a coach, he had his shortcomings.

Wish him all the best in life.

I am sure that he is getting paid out for the rest of his contract. Nothing to complain about. Go home and earn 2+ mil a year.

Ron Wilson got an extension and got paid to do nothing too, that didn't stop him from going on the radio yesterday and throwing bitter darts at former players.

 

[freer]

Carlyle being classy and speaking of some family and personal things he's been dealing with in addition to the Leafs: http://www.torontosun.com/2015/01/07/randy-carlyle-opens-up-about-being-fired-by-leafs

Classy gentleman, Carlyle.  As a person, he comes across as a thoughtful, insightful (and humorous) individual.  As a coach, he had his shortcomings.

Wish him all the best in life.

I am sure that he is getting paid out for the rest of his contract. Nothing to complain about. Go home and earn 2+ mil a year.

Ron Wilson got an extension and got paid to do nothing too, that didn't stop him from going on the radio yesterday and throwing bitter darts at former players.

Sorry Carlyle is a classy man, I always thought Ron was jerk from the start.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Carlyle being classy and speaking of some family and personal things he's been dealing with in addition to the Leafs: http://www.torontosun.com/2015/01/07/randy-carlyle-opens-up-about-being-fired-by-leafs

Classy gentleman, Carlyle.  As a person, he comes across as a thoughtful, insightful (and humorous) individual.  As a coach, he had his shortcomings.

Wish him all the best in life.

I am sure that he is getting paid out for the rest of his contract. Nothing to complain about. Go home and earn 2+ mil a year.

Ron Wilson got an extension and got paid to do nothing too, that didn't stop him from going on the radio yesterday and throwing bitter darts at former players.

That was also almost 3 years later.  It's not like he's been doing that any chance he's had since being fired.

 

[moon111]

It works for Glen Heally, who's still bitter with fans who snubbed his <.900 save percentage as a goalie.

 

[Rebel_1812]

Carlyle being classy and speaking of some family and personal things he's been dealing with in addition to the Leafs: http://www.torontosun.com/2015/01/07/randy-carlyle-opens-up-about-being-fired-by-leafs

Classy gentleman, Carlyle.  As a person, he comes across as a thoughtful, insightful (and humorous) individual.  As a coach, he had his shortcomings.

Wish him all the best in life.

I am sure that he is getting paid out for the rest of his contract. Nothing to complain about. Go home and earn 2+ mil a year.

Ron Wilson got an extension and got paid to do nothing too, that didn't stop him from going on the radio yesterday and throwing bitter darts at former players.

I couldn't stand wilson when he was here.  Carlyle was way better as a coach.  For all the mistakes you think Carlyle made; atleast he didn't play Ian White at forward and Kadri on the wing.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

A couple of decent articles in the Star and Sun with reaction from Carlyle.

The DiManno one especially seemed to hint at the type of dysfunction CJ, Wysh and Marek talked about on the podcast the other day.

Wilson, the three journalists on the podcast and Carlyle all talking about seeming dysfunction in the room over the past 24 hours, I'm starting to lean heavily on the idea that they might need to completely tear it all down and start over.

 

[rdowdall]

But therein lies the problem.  If they win, make it to the playoffs, and win a round, then upper management, the fans and maybe even the media, may start to say "Hey this team could win".  The flaws though will still be there.  The difference between them being a playoff contender and a cup contender is addressing those flaws.  And in order to address those flaws, the most clear and common way is to acquire that talent through high draft picks.

Sure, but, if they get that far (and, let's be honest, that's unlikely), it's a sign that those flaws may not be as deep as some fear. I don't think winning a round or two would fool anyone into thinking the Leafs don't need an upgrade down the middle on the first line or on the blue line. It wouldn't even be a signal that everyone considered to be a core player should be retained - anything short of a Cup, and it'll still be clear that upgrades are required, though sweeping changes may not be. It's only a problem if the team's management is completely clueless, and, with the changes that have been made the front office over the past 6-8 months, I don't think that's the case anymore. With the exception of Nonis, the group that thought the series against Boston was indicative of anything have been replaced, and even Nonis is no longer in a position where he's executing his own vision. He's now trying to put Shanahan's into place, and working on other's plans is something he's shown some competence in doing.

I'm worried less after last nights game.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

The DiManno one especially seemed to hint at the type of dysfunction CJ, Wysh and Marek talked about on the podcast the other day.

Just read the article (and it's DiManno so let's be honest, I skimmed it) but didn't pick out any hinting at dysfunction.  Which parts of the article hint at that?

 

[pmrules]

Some pretty telling words from Roman Polak (who, as the article points out, has spent most of his career on a winning team in St. Louis).

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-need-to-bridge-divided-dressing-room/

Take it from no-nonsense defenceman Roman Polak, who had spent his entire NHL career in St. Louis before a trade to Toronto last summer. He didn?t flinch when asked why the Leafs haven?t played with enough defensive structure.

?Because it?s hard work,? Polak said before Wednesday?s 6-2 loss to Washington. ?It?s always tough to do something you know you don?t like to do. I think we have lots of guys that just want to play offence.?

...

All of which brings us back to the million-dollar question: Will the message sent by Carlyle?s firing and a stronger voice for Horachek be enough to accomplish it?

?It?s tough to say,? said Polak. ?I don?t know. As a coach, you can do whatever you want, but the guys have to listen too. It?s not just the coach?s fault; it?s the guys, too, because they have to listen and they have to understand what the coach wants from them.

?If they don?t, it doesn?t matter what kind of coach you have.?

Some new voices are starting to speak up. Will the others hear them?

 

[Joe S.]

It works for Glen Heally, who's still bitter with fans who snubbed his <.900 save percentage as a goalie.

he just played in the wrong era. If he'd played in the 80s he'd be in the HOF.

 

[bustaheims]

It works for Glen Heally, who's still bitter with fans who snubbed his <.900 save percentage as a goalie.

he just played in the wrong era. If you played in the 80s that gets you in the HOF.

And what he's really bitter about is that the Leafs didn't take his interest in the position of GM seriously.