Coronavirus

[Highlander]

Ya, it is possible, but what has this taught rouge states like North Korea or the Terrorist nations???  Or Russia? 
Would it not be possible to take this virus or one like it a step further and make it specific for certain races or cultures with diverse biomes or genetic tendencies?
Could create a huge amount of vacated real estate to propagate a nation like China's population. Don't need a war to rule the world perhaps.  Just kill your enemies quietly and in huge numbers.
Scary to even think of it.

 

[Chris]

Not something we want to read about but the possibility exists of this scenario to have transpired.

Certainly possible that it was a lab leak. How likely, no way of knowing. And the question at this time is, does it really matter? Unless someone in a lab somewhere has a cure or vaccine they're waiting to sell to the world, we have to deal with it the same way whether it's natural or not.

If it is a lab leak, could be a bio-weapon or just a strain they were working with in vaccine development or other basic research. Something to worry about in the future for sure. Now, I just want to avoid getting it if possible.

 

[Bullfrog]

I'm not sure "mild, flu-like symptoms" makes an ideal bio-weapon.

 

[hockeyfan1]

CNN Films is airing tonight ?Unseen Enemy: Pandemic? which originally aired in 2017. 

https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2017/03/30/unseen-enemy-excerpt-pandemic-predicted-bird-flu-new.cnn/video/playlists/unseen-enemy/

The encroachment of wetlands (wild animals interact with domestic), larger and larger factory farming as well the fact that our food is more globalized than ever, all contributing factors to the growing influenza problem. 

 

[Stebro]

I went to do some grocery shopping here in Stockholm, and people are definately hoarding some items, rice is pretty much gone even in the really big supermarkets.

As for the virus I think the strategy in Sweden is to balance on the edge of what the healthcare can handle, the approach here doesn't seem to be as aggresive as many other countries in Europe. The authorities responsible here is facing a lot of crap here and abroad, especially from China, but our relationship is bad. China has asked EU to condemn how Sweden is handling it.

It is thought that the intension in Sweden is to protect risk groups and let others get it to build up more immunity. The scientist in me says that it's the right approach, the human in me says it's the wrong approach.

I just read that it is a part of the strategy that people get it, but they try to control it so it goes slowely, it is believed that another wave will hit in the autumn, and the strategy then is to have as much immunity in the population as possible.

The authorities say that if we lock everything down now and another wave of the virus hit us in the autumn without immunity we will have the exact same problem as now.

As for the virus being man made I've got a friend who knows someone here who is analyzing the virus, and according to him the string of the DNA doesn't look natural. Now, I don't know if that means probably man made or something else.

 

[rdowdall]

I'm not sure "mild, flu-like symptoms" makes an ideal bio-weapon.

My acquaintance at CSIS says that there is satellite imagery that shows they also have these long wooden boats that have dragon heads at the bow.  Also their army is armed with these rifles that can fire this metal pellet, a beebee if you will, 300 meters per second.  That'll put your eye out.

 

[Bender]

I went to do some grocery shopping here in Stockholm, and people are definately hoarding some items, rice is pretty much gone even in the really big supermarkets.

As for the virus I think the strategy in Sweden is to balance on the edge of what the healthcare can handle, the approach here doesn't seem to be as aggresive as many other countries in Europe. The authorities responsible here is facing a lot of crap here and abroad, especially from China, but our relationship is bad. China has asked EU to condemn how Sweden is handling it.

It is thought that the intension in Sweden is to protect risk groups and let others get it to build up more immunity. The scientist in me says that it's the right approach, the human in me says it's the wrong approach.

I just read that it is a part of the strategy that people get it, but they try to control it so it goes slowely, it is believed that another wave will hit in the autumn, and the strategy then is to have as much immunity in the population as possible.

The authorities say that if we lock everything down now and another wave of the virus hit us in the autumn without immunity we will have the exact same problem as now.

As for the virus being man made I've got a friend who knows someone here who is analyzing the virus, and according to him the string of the DNA doesn't look natural. Now, I don't know if that means probably man made or something else.

It looks like other coronaviruses, but it is new so it might be somewhat different from what's out there currently. Until an expert says otherwise (which they have not) there is no reason to believe it isn't natural.

Theres potential it may come back in the winter stronger like Spanish flu but there's no way of knowing that. Trying to control it once it's loose is like letting a thousand lions out at once on an antelope sanctuary. It can and will get out of hand quickly.

 

[Bender]

Ya, it is possible, but what has this taught rouge states like North Korea or the Terrorist nations???  Or Russia? 
Would it not be possible to take this virus or one like it a step further and make it specific for certain races or cultures with diverse biomes or genetic tendencies?
Could create a huge amount of vacated real estate to propagate a nation like China's population. Don't need a war to rule the world perhaps.  Just kill your enemies quietly and in huge numbers.
Scary to even think of it.

Every epidemiologist in the world who cared about this has been saying this for years. Bioterrorism isn't new - the whole world knows how fragile we are. The issue is the world is so interconnected that to some extent biological warfare is almost not worth it compared to other types of warfare.

 

[Highlander]

I'm not sure "mild, flu-like symptoms" makes an ideal bio-weapon.

My acquaintance at CSIS says that there is satellite imagery that shows they also have these long wooden boats that have dragon heads at the bow.  Also their army is armed with these rifles that can fire this metal pellet, a beebee if you will, 300 meters per second.  That'll put your eye out.

"What if someone attacks us with pointed sticks".  Monty again.

 

[hockeyfan1]

The human spirit never fails to surprise, right Donald?

[tweet]1238966216053555200[/tweet]

 

[Kin]

I know this will probably fall on deaf ears but is there anyway people could maybe make a concerted effort to not post speculation or whatever sensationalist claims they find out there? Even if some of this stuff is true, you should be asking if repeating it actually helps anyone. If this is a genetically engineered bioweapon that changes...what, practically?

I'm sure there will be plenty of time for conspiracy theories and wild accusations but right now with so many people worried and confined we need to remember that while we're urging people to self-isolate in order for the good of the community and our physical health, we also have a responsibility to look after each other's mental well-being. Paranoia, panic, the instinct to find scapegoats...none of these things are productive now and they especially won't be if things get worse.

 

[Arn]

I know this will probably fall on deaf ears but is there anyway people could maybe make a concerted effort to not post speculation or whatever sensationalist claims they find out there? Even if some of this stuff is true, you should be asking if repeating it actually helps anyone. If this is a genetically engineered bioweapon that changes...what, practically?

I'm sure there will be plenty of time for conspiracy theories and wild accusations but right now with so many people worried and confined we need to remember that while we're urging people to self-isolate in order for the good of the community and our physical health, we also have a responsibility to look after each other's mental well-being. Paranoia, panic, the instinct to find scapegoats...none of these things are productive now and they especially won't be if things get worse.

Agreed. This isn't just an issue for this forum, but this is a pretty grave situation that is morphing at a very quick pace. The actual facts are scary enough without all the other rubbish that seems to be fuelled by social media in particular.

It just goes to show whatever way you look at it, it?s all just a bit mad. We think as a society we?re fairly well developed and pretty safe then every now and then along comes something like a crazy virus to put us back in our box.

 

[princedpw]

*Edit: Also just to clarify, I agree people shouldn't "run" to hospitals and should call and see if they can get tested offsite, but I don't think a 3% kill rate is "mass hysteria caused by the media." This is entirely on individuals who should do their damn due diligence and call their GP and ask what they should do and if it makes sense to get tested, and hopefully the test is offsite from a hospital.

If that turns out to be the true mortality rate, then, no, it's not hysteria at all - not with how easy it can spread. The problem is we may not know the true mortality rate for some time - if ever - as a significant number of people who may have contracted the virus will/were never be tested. For a lot of the population, COVID-19 can present similar to a normal cold. There could be thousands of unreported cases out there, which would significantly drive down the mortality rate.

There's lots we really don't know. There were reports coming out of Wuhan back in February that huge numbers of people had died. I saw videos with bodies laying in the streets. There were videos from hospitals with patients lined up through the corridors barely able to breath, with dead bodies on the floor, some in body bags. Reports that crematoriums were unable to keep up. Many think the true death toll in Wuhan was at least 10x what was reported, maybe even more than that. China shut down all those reports by "disappearing" people who were sending out that info. Of course, the true number of minor or asymptomatic cases might be much higher than we think.

I believe South Korea will give us the best info about the overall severity of the virus. They've done vast amounts of testing and presumably identified many more cases, covering a broad range of severity, compared to other countries. Right now their death rate looks very low but it will probably creep up since the disease course is often several weeks. They've identified 7500 case but only about 250 are listed as "recovered" versus 58 deaths. We'll see where that goes.

This is also highly dependant on public policy and social custom and a number of variables. How else do you explain Italy's high rate and Korea's low one? I don't think you can use one country in isolation in analysing this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/asiatimes.com/2020/03/why-are-koreas-covid-19-death-rates-so-low/

Supposedly the virus is doing much better in cold climates than warm ones. I don't know why but my wife has been immersed in this stuff and she has heard this more than once.

Wuhan & Tehran aren't cold though. I don't know how we have enough information to extrapolate that yet.

[EDIT:  Ok, reading further, a bunch of other people said the same thing .... sorry ...]

I have an epidemiologist friend who is posting lots on Facebook.  Most coronaviruses have this property of doing better in cold, dry air than in warm, humid air.  However, I don't think it is quite clear yet how closely this one follows that trend.

 

[Highlander]

I know this will probably fall on deaf ears but is there anyway people could maybe make a concerted effort to not post speculation or whatever sensationalist claims they find out there? Even if some of this stuff is true, you should be asking if repeating it actually helps anyone. If this is a genetically engineered bioweapon that changes...what, practically?

I'm sure there will be plenty of time for conspiracy theories and wild accusations but right now with so many people worried and confined we need to remember that while we're urging people to self-isolate in order for the good of the community and our physical health, we also have a responsibility to look after each other's mental well-being. Paranoia, panic, the instinct to find scapegoats...none of these things are productive now and they especially won't be if things get worse.

Agreed, I will stop posting on this subject, made it across the border yesterday and was told for us to self isolate for 2 weeks. I wish you all the best everyone.  Keep washing your hands.

 

[hockeyfan1]

I know this will probably fall on deaf ears but is there anyway people could maybe make a concerted effort to not post speculation or whatever sensationalist claims they find out there? Even if some of this stuff is true, you should be asking if repeating it actually helps anyone. If this is a genetically engineered bioweapon that changes...what, practically?

I'm sure there will be plenty of time for conspiracy theories and wild accusations but right now with so many people worried and confined we need to remember that while we're urging people to self-isolate in order for the good of the community and our physical health, we also have a responsibility to look after each other's mental well-being. Paranoia, panic, the instinct to find scapegoats...none of these things are productive now and they especially won't be if things get worse.

Agreed. This isn't just an issue for this forum, but this is a pretty grave situation that is morphing at a very quick pace. The actual facts are scary enough without all the other rubbish that seems to be fuelled by social media in particular.

It just goes to show whatever way you look at it, it?s all just a bit mad. We think as a society we?re fairly well developed and pretty safe then every now and then along comes something like a crazy virus to put us back in our box.

Whether this virus is man-made or not, it still doesn?t exclude the fact that it is something society and science has never seen before.  During the SARS outbreak here in Toronto, then microbiologist Dr. Donald Low identified that the virus had no known human strain which in effect, he believed it to be man-made.

It doesn?t hurt to speak about the possibility of it as being a potential bio weapon.  This isn?t some airy fairy idea just the possibility that it could be.
Don?t think that people out there aren?t thinking of that as well.  This crosses the minds of many but of course, there?s nothing we can do now that it?s here, whether it is or it isn?t a deliberate or by design man-made disease.

Social media is not the go-to place for information.  The reason why I posted possibility of it as being a potential ?weaponized? virus (not from social media) is because of some facts uncovered about the AIDS virus by the late Donald Scott, founder of the Common Cause Medical Research Foundation:

http://www.illnessstrategies.ca/common-cause-medical-research-foundation.html


Alright, enough posting about the what if and whatnots.  Let?s just be practical by using prudency as outlined by public health officials.  And please, people, no more hoarding of supplies.

Everyone stay safe and stay well. 

 

[LuncheonMeat]

I know this will probably fall on deaf ears but is there anyway people could maybe make a concerted effort to not post speculation or whatever sensationalist claims they find out there? Even if some of this stuff is true, you should be asking if repeating it actually helps anyone. If this is a genetically engineered bioweapon that changes...what, practically?

I'm sure there will be plenty of time for conspiracy theories and wild accusations but right now with so many people worried and confined we need to remember that while we're urging people to self-isolate in order for the good of the community and our physical health, we also have a responsibility to look after each other's mental well-being. Paranoia, panic, the instinct to find scapegoats...none of these things are productive now and they especially won't be if things get worse.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. My wife and I live in the Seattle area. We're both healthcare providers, and she works at Evergreen Hospital in Kirkland where this whole thing broke out on the west coast, so it's pretty close to home for us. At this point people have lost their ever loving minds here. I was in a grocery store on Friday, and a lady with a cart actually broke into a terrified sprint when she saw me walking behind her. I wanted to tell her the crap she had in her cart was going to be her undoing, but by that time she was across the store.

I wish people would chill with the alarmist nonsense (here, not necessarily the forums). It serves no other purpose than to act as a panic multiplier in a time when people need to keep their heads and support each other.

 

[L K]

Working today and here is my list of gripes so far:

1 - Employers still demanding sick notes
2 - Our hospital administration worried about dress codes that do not pertain to any form of infection control
3 - People showing up to the ER for rashes you have had for "months"
4 - People getting upset and demanding immediate access to pirmary care during a pandemic and upset you are't getting your way by yelling

Please respect your neighbours.  Don't go out in large groups.  Don't horde supplies at home, particularly for things that are grossly irrelevant to the current health conditions.  With luck we can all look back on this in 2 months and breath a great big sigh of relief at how much of a non-issue it all ended up being but right now we need to stay the course on limiting exposures.

 

[bustaheims]

It doesn?t hurt to speak about the possibility of it as being a potential bio weapon. 

It doesn't help, and that's more important.

If it doesn't help, don't spread it.

 

[Frank E]

Working today and here is my list of gripes so far:

1 - Employers still demanding sick notes

*snip

Just a little context here...I have spent most of the day discussing with local business owners and lawyers on exactly how people can claim for EI while self-isolating, and the feds have yet to update even their own MP's on this.

The suggestion from Ford (province) was that the sick note was not necessary for you to stay home and keep your job.  Cool, we employers don't have any problem with this.

The problem is the feds still require some documentation be kept by people in order to claim sick leave to get EI.  They've waived the 1 week waiting period, but that's it.  Hence, people are still trying to get sick notes.

At this point, the consensus from the lawyers suggests that we simply generate the ROE (record of employment) and have employees claim "sick leave" even without a doctor's note.

Just giving you a little background on that problem, LK.  You've got your hands full, for sure, so stay safe! 

 

[Arn]

It doesn?t hurt to speak about the possibility of it as being a potential bio weapon. 

It doesn't help, and that's more important.

If it doesn't help, don't spread it.

I would love a ?like? function purely for this post.

Anywho in other news, the U.K. government looks a bit silly for a change

https://www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/alexwickham/coronavirus-uk-strategy-deaths