David Clarkson

[bustaheims]

But, when Clarkson is on his game (which, again, he hasn't been this year), he brings the ability to get hard on the forecheck, punish defenders, create havoc in front of the net, and improve team toughness while having the ability to finish, get garbage goals, and not pull down the play of skilled teammates.  In my opinion, he's not a $5M+ player, but nor is he 'barely average'.

Honestly, I'm not sure Clarkson's skating is good enough to do a lot of the things you list here.

 

[Champ Kind]

But, when Clarkson is on his game (which, again, he hasn't been this year), he brings the ability to get hard on the forecheck, punish defenders, create havoc in front of the net, and improve team toughness while having the ability to finish, get garbage goals, and not pull down the play of skilled teammates.  In my opinion, he's not a $5M+ player, but nor is he 'barely average'.

Honestly, I'm not sure Clarkson's skating is good enough to do a lot of the things you list here.

Well, we can agree to disagree, though I'm sure there will be some measure or stat posted that definitively proves how slow Clarkson is.  I know I'm trying to sell swamp land at a low point in the market, but there's way more to Clarkson's game than has been shown this year.  His poor play is casting a pretty big shadow right now, so I get it, but some of the opinions are unrealistic, in my opinion. 

 

[Highlander]

I totally agree with Weekend at Berniers and have been saying such for a long time.  I was always an admirer of Clarksons game when with the Devils, for some reason he always seemed to stand out as a very tenacious player whom could pot some goals.  For whatever reason, the suspension, the injuries, trying to hard in his hometown,? he has not yet gelled this season. One can ask what if. what if Bolland had not been injured and that they had played together all season injury free, would we have seen a different Dave C?  I still think the best is yet to come and if we need a whipping boy, lets keep whipping Orr and Fraser.  Lets let Dave C hit his own reset button.

 

[Zee]

I totally agree with Weekend at Berniers and have been saying such for a long time.  I was always an admirer of Clarksons game when with the Devils, for some reason he always seemed to stand out as a very tenacious player whom could pot some goals.  For whatever reason, the suspension, the injuries, trying to hard in his hometown,? he has not yet gelled this season. One can ask what if. what if Bolland had not been injured and that they had played together all season injury free, would we have seen a different Dave C?  I still think the best is yet to come and if we need a whipping boy, lets keep whipping Orr and Fraser.  Lets let Dave C hit his own reset button.

Clarkson is lucky that the Leafs are in a playoff spot, if this team was on the outside looking in I think he would be taking a lot more heat than he is currently. He was the big free agent signing and the media would be all over him if the Leafs are where Ottawa is right now.

 

[Champ Kind]

I totally agree with Weekend at Berniers and have been saying such for a long time.  I was always an admirer of Clarksons game when with the Devils, for some reason he always seemed to stand out as a very tenacious player whom could pot some goals.  For whatever reason, the suspension, the injuries, trying to hard in his hometown,? he has not yet gelled this season. One can ask what if. what if Bolland had not been injured and that they had played together all season injury free, would we have seen a different Dave C?  I still think the best is yet to come and if we need a whipping boy, lets keep whipping Orr and Fraser.  Lets let Dave C hit his own reset button.

Clarkson is lucky that the Leafs are in a playoff spot, if this team was on the outside looking in I think he would be taking a lot more heat than he is currently. He was the big free agent signing and the media would be all over him if the Leafs are where Ottawa is right now.

Well, ok, sure.  And?

I mean, the Leafs overpaid to get the guy they wanted.  The guy hasn't performed for whatever reason(s).  This is not the first time this has happened, nor will it be the last.  Clarkson is being written off as either a wash-up or a never-was.  Yet Clarkson is being paid as a high-end talent.  The reality, for me, is somewhere between those two extremes, even though I'll again admit Clarkson's play this year has not been good.

 

[Newfoundlandleaf]

Put me in the positive category, but I think, in time, we will see a better David Clarkson! I don't think the scouting dept got it that wrong...his stupid decision to leave the bench, and the assortment of injuries, has, I think, made it difficult for him to "find a groove" despite all the criticism here...it is hopefully just a rough year...with that contract, I think we have to hope so!!

 

[Highlander]

I don't think this is on off base assumption, I believe Clarkson will get better and will help us in the playoffs. He showed a lot of tenacity last night especially after Gardiner was hit. And as the cap rises significantly his contract in 3 or 4 years will not seem so off base. Yes we paid a premium for him but lets hope the best is to come. I am on record saying one day soon he will receive accolades as a Leaf

 

[freer]

I think last nights game in ANA was just the start to his improved play. I like his heart, especially when he stuck up for Gardiner. The team has a need for that.

 

[nutman]

I liked his game last night, lets see how he does tonight.

 

[2badknees]

I think last nights game in ANA was just the start to his improved play. I like his heart, especially when he stuck up for Gardiner. The team has a need for that.

He did well, too. Bryan Allen had some size on him.

 

[slapshot]

You mean the line that he has played on mostly this season, where he has barely scored or put up any points?

Um, no.  Subjectively, your statement that Clarkson has played with Kadri and  Lupul seemed wrong to me.  Then I searched, and searched, and searched, and finally came up with something quantitative:

TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS LINES FOR 2014-03-10
EVEN STRENGTH

FORWARDS
#1 30.6% BOZAK,TYLER - KESSEL,PHIL - VAN RIEMSDYK,JAMES
#2 17.7% KADRI,NAZEM - KULEMIN,NIKOLAI - LUPUL,JOFFREY
#3 10.9% CLARKSON,DAVID - HOLLAND,PETER - RAYMOND,MASON
#4 8.9% BODIE,TROY - HOLLAND,PETER - RAYMOND,MASON

And while I'm not going to swim completely against the current and say Clarkson has been all I'd hoped he would be, I will say he also has not been as consistently brutal as he's being made out to be.  I've seen posters say Troy Bodie is a better player, that he might now score more than 7 goals each year of his contract.  Look, Clarkson is struggling - big time - but there is skill there, and he can be an effective player.

I think Dr. Leafer said it a while ago, and I'm paraphrasing here, give Clarkson a mulligan for this year, hit the reset button for 14-15, and reserve final conclusions until then.

Clarkson has been mostly awful this year and has been criticized accordingly. If he starts playing better or has a better year next year, great! I don't see why conclusions have to be reserved. This is a player who has failed to reach 20 and 30 points in full 82 game schedules in the past and has had only one season where he reached 40 (46). It's an awful contract for a barely average player who hasn't played well and he (and Nonis) are being judged quite fairly imo.

As for the line combos I think your "um..no" response has already been refuted. Clarkson has received a good amount of playing time including top six minutes and powerplay time. He might start playing better but, again, based on his career numbers I'm not sure how much better he can play.

Bodie vs. Clarkson on equal contracts? I take Clarkson. Bodie for league minimum and Clarkson over 5mill each year for 7 years? Bodie, easily, hands down. Heck, give Bodie some PP and 2nd line time and who knows, maybe he can reach Clarkson's avg. NJ season output (which is somewhere in the range of 15 goals and 35 points).

I think Clarkson can get back to near his career, but regardless the Leafs didn't give him a lucrative contract on stats alone. They wanted a rugged battler for the team, especially in the playoffs. Tell, me it doesn't help players like Gardiner to have a teammate come in and take on a guy like last night. Sure, there are guys like Orr who can do that for a lot less. But they can't do much of anything else.
I agree Bodie has been a hugely pleasant surprise. And, am really glad they kept him. Perfect fourth line guy, who can move up occasionally to fill in during injuries.
It is Clarkson's first year here, and practically, anything that could go wrong did. He sure hasn't earned his money here "so far," but a strong playoff could at least put a dent in it.
I think next year will be a better judge of whether we have a Scott Gomez on our hands or not, and I don't think we do.
It was not all that long ago that people were dumping all over Kessel, bad trade, blah, blah, blah....

 

[2badknees]

I think the best that can be hoped for Clarkson is that he plays the Chris Neil/Steve Ott role on the Leafs, which he did last night - be the "new NHL" enforcer/pest/energy guy.

He's overpaid for the role, but its one the leafs still need. Expectations of 20 goal seasons aren't going to happen with him here, as the leafs don't score goals the same way the devils did (cycle puck possession behind crease).

 

[Kin]

Well, we can agree to disagree, though I'm sure there will be some measure or stat posted that definitively proves how slow Clarkson is.  I know I'm trying to sell swamp land at a low point in the market, but there's way more to Clarkson's game than has been shown this year.  His poor play is casting a pretty big shadow right now, so I get it, but some of the opinions are unrealistic, in my opinion.

I think there's probably some truth to the idea that there's a version of David Clarkson that's more effective than what we've seen to date with the Leafs. The problem is that I really do wonder if that version of Clarkson has a realistic chance of emerging here in Toronto in the role that the Leafs are likely to ask him to play. In the last two seasons, where Clarkson has been an effective goal scorer, he did so getting a pretty significant chunk of PP time and on a PP that featured some pretty ridiculously talented players like Patrik Elias, Zach Parise and Ilya Kovalchuk. He's not likely to duplicate that here. I said in the Bozak thread that there's value to being that third or fourth wheel and that is but that doesn't mean that if you take someone out of that role they can be just as effective elsewhere.

I also sort of question the concept of him as a "havoc-creating" wrecking ball on the forecheck. I know the hits statistic is a little dubious but for the majority of his career he's been around 2 hits a game, a number roughly in line with what guys like Nik Kulemin, Nazem Kadri and Jay McClement have been credited with this season. Clarkson is actually credited with hitting more often this season than in years past but it hasn't really translated to being effective as a third line energy guy even without putting points up.

And that, I think, is the concerning thing here. I understand a goal scorer being snakebitten. I understand a speedy guy looking less fast with an injury or a guy with a great shot hitting posts. The sort of gritty/energy stuff you're talking about...it should be a constant. Why isn't Clarkson knocking guys down this year? Why isn't he particularly good against the boards or on the cycle? Offensive effectiveness can come and go but that stuff shouldn't fade.

So what's up? Why was Clarkson named as such a sought after FA this off-season? I think the answer lies in what is sort of an old bugaboo with me in terms of how players are evaluated where guys who do something that fits a certain archetype of a player are then assumed to have other qualities that are related to that. So, for instance, a defenseman who is a big guy and throws big hits gets more credit for his "tough, physical" play and his actual defensive liabilities get overlooked(say, like Dion Phaneuf) or, in Clarkson's case, a forward who will fight will be assumed to be the sort of gritty, forechecking sort even if that doesn't really conform to the facts.

 

[Stronger Than All]

Ok so at least he's embracing his role as 4th line goon.

 

[drummond]

Ok so at least he's embracing his role as 4th line goon.

For 5M per, this is what I call good deal

 

[Champ Kind]

And that, I think, is the concerning thing here. I understand a goal scorer being snakebitten. I understand a speedy guy looking less fast with an injury or a guy with a great shot hitting posts. The sort of gritty/energy stuff you're talking about...it should be a constant. Why isn't Clarkson knocking guys down this year? Why isn't he particularly good against the boards or on the cycle? Offensive effectiveness can come and go but that stuff shouldn't fade.

So what's up? Why was Clarkson named as such a sought after FA this off-season? I think the answer lies in what is sort of an old bugaboo with me in terms of how players are evaluated where guys who do something that fits a certain archetype of a player are then assumed to have other qualities that are related to that. So, for instance, a defenseman who is a big guy and throws big hits gets more credit for his "tough, physical" play and his actual defensive liabilities get overlooked(say, like Dion Phaneuf) or, in Clarkson's case, a forward who will fight will be assumed to be the sort of gritty, forechecking sort even if that doesn't really conform to the facts.

I think these two paragraphs make excellent points, points which add a pretty good degree of concern on my end.  The "truculent" effort by Clarkson has been really inconsistent.  So, yes, why hasn't it been there or, more accurately, why is it only sometimes there?    My answer is the guy has had a pretty atypical year - huge contract with expectations to match, 10 game suspension, hurt, another suspension, hurt, and more down than up play throughout.  I think health and psyche can thrown off one's game, especially a game that (to use a horrible clich?) requires "on the edge" play.  And, in the first half of the season at least, I do think Clarkson was snakebit, having hit a lot of posts and received bad bounces.  No excuse, but this sort of thing can have a snowball effect.

You're bang on with your second paragraph.  Players get slotted into categories, such that if you have A and B qualities you also necessarily have C and D.  Good on Clarkson, he attained financial security for him and his loved ones.  The Leafs overpaid and he's underperformed, no question.  But I still think there is more there and, while maybe not $5M worth of value, better than league minimum for sure.

 

[L K]

Last night was a perfect example of what is wrong with Clarkson.  He has a "better game" the night before in Anaheim.  He went right back to being completely ineffective last night.  Lazy skating, clueless in the defensive zone and pretty much a non-factor in terms of creating a physical presence.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Lazy skating, clueless in the defensive zone and pretty much a non-factor in terms of creating a physical presence.

He was most definitely a factor by creating a physical presence right in front of Reimer.

 

[bustaheims]

He was most definitely a factor by creating a physical presence right in front of Reimer.

Yup. Some very good screening by Clarkson last night.

 

[L K]

Lazy skating, clueless in the defensive zone and pretty much a non-factor in terms of creating a physical presence.

He was most definitely a factor by creating a physical presence right in front of Reimer.

His screen of Reimer was sensational in the 2nd period.  He completely quit on keeping up with his defender and just coasted directly in front of the net taking absolutely noone.