David Clarkson

[TML fan]

I'm finding it hard to blame him entirely for his lack of production given the way the Leafs play hockey.

Yeah, wouldn't blame Clarkson for this. But isn't it something management should've anticipated when putting together its roster? I mean, I get that Clarkson plays a way that Nonis/Carlyle value, that they aspire to be grinding/ cycling team, but they're not really. And adding David Clarkson doesn't change that, not when the rest of your scoring lines are Kadri, Lupul, Kessel, JvR, and Raymond.

Honestly, no I wouldn't have expected them to anticipate that the Leafs would play like this. Not after how they played the majority of their playoff series vs Boston. I've said this before but I believe the Leafs were the better team in that series and it was their reversion to a collapsing defensive system that cost them game 7. In fact, I think the addition of Clarkson was an acknowledgement that they need to play an aggressive offensive style.

My honest opinion of Carlyle boils down to this: he's stubborn. Plain and simple. They realized that they weren't going to be able to contain Boston and so they played out of their usual element for that series and even though it worked, I think Carlyle is set in his ways and this is how he wants his team to play defence. Unfortunately when you do that you are suffocating your offence, and so while Carlyle says he wants the Leafs to forecheck and cycle, their defensive set up makes those two things incompatible. The Leafs simply aren't good enough to do both effectively. It has to be one or the other.

Sorry I kind of went off topic a bit there. But essentially I think the Leafs made the right move getting Clarkson, or at least they did it for the right reasons. There is a disconnect of how management has put together te team and how it is deployed on the ice.

Yeah, I generally agree with your characterization of the game 7 collapse, how the team's playing now, and what they're doing that makes it so.

But I still don't know that they had the complimentary pieces this off-season to make Clarkson work. Who on the team can play with him? Who can retrieve the puck well, move it well on the boards, and set someone like Clarkson up? He's useless on the rush -- a pass five feet behind Lupul a few games ago lingers in my mind -- and besides maybe Bolland, sometimes Raymond, occasionally Kadri, and in principle (though not often in fact) JvR, the skill players don't really play this way. The ones that can all come with caveats. And, at their best, the Leafs didn't really play Clarkson's game against Boston.

You know who played that game a couple seasons back, and seems to this season, and might've looked nice alongside Clarkson? Grabovski.

I think you're underestimating the grind game of guys like Lupul and Kadri a little bit. Both players can be effective down low and along the boards. I don't think you need to have 3 grinders all playing together to make an effective line. The Leafs had a good cycle game going against Boston but what really made it effective wasn't so much how they controlled the puck in the offensive zone but how they forced turnovers and bad passes by just being in Boston's face all game. A turnover doesn't always mean the puck winds up on someone's stick. A simple pass too far or too short from it's intended target results in the Leafs regaining possession. Even if they had to reset their attack, the bottom line is, when the other team doesn't have the puck, it's pretty difficult for them to score on you. It's all about taking away the time and space to make a good play. You have to force the mistakes, not just wait for them to happen.

Clarkson's job is to go in, force turnovers, and then go to the net and collect the garbage. The problem has been so far, he doesn't have much opportunity to do that because the Leafs aren't controlling the puck in the offensive zone. He goes in but there's nobody there for the turnover.

 

[mr grieves]

For comparing players I usually look at offensive production beyond goals...

Although if that's the inclination Bolland and Raymond are still the more cost effective players in that grouping. In fact, of the players listed(including Bozak) Grabovski still would represent the most cap dollars per projected point aside from Clarkson with Raymond being the least by far.

In a world where Dave Bolland plays more than half the season, Bozak misses no games, and with Grabo on a $5.5m contract, yeah that's true, except that MacArthur's in among the most cost effective.

Of course, of the contracts all of those players  are presently on, and the games played / points scored they're likely to have at the end of the year, the two most cost effective are those belong to guys trying to play themselves back into contracts commensurate with their skills: Raymond and Grabovski.

 

[Kin]

In a world where Dave Bolland plays more than half the season, Bozak misses no games, and with Grabo on a $5.5m contract, yeah that's true, except that MacArthur's in among the most cost effective.

He is, but still roughly two and a half times less cost effective than Raymond, who's his closest comparable in terms of skillset. Toss in the difference in their respective linemates and the Leafs did just fine in that swap.

Maybe it's just me but it seems disingenuous to look at Grabo in the light of what he's being paid rather than his actual cost to the team if they'd decided to keep him, at least if we're framing this in the context of options available to the Leafs(if not, no argument, Washington got a very good deal on him and one I wish the Leafs could have had). 

As for the rest, I mean, I'm not sure what you're implying we should take away from Bozak and Bolland's injuries and their reflection on their value of those players given that neither were recurring injuries. I mean, yeah, bad luck they both got hurt but that was never going to factor into either player's acquisition or contract negotiations.

Of course, of the contracts all of those players  are presently on, and the games played / points scored they're likely to have at the end of the year, the two most cost effective are those belong to guys trying to play themselves back into contracts commensurate with their skills: Raymond and Grabovski.

I suppose that's true if we're taking the position that because a player hasn't been injured in the first third of the season he's somehow unlikely to be as the season goes along.

Because injuries are largely outside of a team's control I think BBD's point still holds water. Of the options available to the Leafs they largely replaced the players they lost with as or nearly as effective options at significantly cheaper cost to them...and then blew those savings on Clarkson. I can't, and didn't, defend that decision but I think it's fair to say that the early results have carried a little bit of water for the idea that Nonis did a pretty good job of maintaining or even improving on the group of forwards he had although, again, Clarkson excluded.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

He's had games where he's invisible as well, but I think that's because his line is unable to establish any offensive zone presence (turn the puck over before they hit the blue line, dump and chase but don't retrieve the puck). Kadri and Raymond aren't exactly guys who play that style.

But Clarkson played the majority of last season with Elias and Zajac.  I wouldn't say those players are really that style either.

Clarkson's just had nothing going offensively.  It's great that he gets in on the forecheck and hits and starts to try to cycle, but Kulemin does that too.  Clarkson's on pace for just over 150 shots this season when he had 180 in just 48 games last season.  That tells me that he's not getting in offensive situations enough to get chances.  Those shot totals would be his lowest since '07-08 and '08-09.  I would expect his SH% to creep up a little bit, but he's exhibiting the symptoms that the entire team is - no shots (except Kessel, who is on pace for 325 shots, which would tie a career high - and also on a 42 goal pace).

 

[Frank E]

He's had games where he's invisible as well, but I think that's because his line is unable to establish any offensive zone presence (turn the puck over before they hit the blue line, dump and chase but don't retrieve the puck). Kadri and Raymond aren't exactly guys who play that style.

But Clarkson played the majority of last season with Elias and Zajac.  I wouldn't say those players are really that style either.

Clarkson's just had nothing going offensively.  It's great that he gets in on the forecheck and hits and starts to try to cycle, but Kulemin does that too.  Clarkson's on pace for just over 150 shots this season when he had 180 in just 48 games last season.  That tells me that he's not getting in offensive situations enough to get chances.  Those shot totals would be his lowest since '07-08 and '08-09.  I would expect his SH% to creep up a little bit, but he's exhibiting the symptoms that the entire team is - no shots (except Kessel, who is on pace for 325 shots, which would tie a career high - and also on a 42 goal pace).

Well said.

 

[L K]

To me I'm watching Clarkson with the puck in the offensive zone and he isn't doing anything with it.  His head is down a lot of the time and he's not looking to continue the play with line-mates.  He's not playing with a couple of grinders so looking to keep the puck along the boards isnt' the way he needs to play his game.  He needs to be looking to outlet the puck either to the point or to the half-boards and toward the slot where Kadri and Lupul/Raymond are positioned.

When he does take the puck off the boards he usually tries to drive the net by himself but he does it when there is at least one defender in his path.  He's not playing smart in the offensive zone right now.

But absolutely, as far as puck possession goes, he has been better than most of the rest of the team so far.  I know it could mess up lines, but I wonder what a line of Kulemin-Kadri-Clarkson could possibly do.  Kadri doesn't exactly fit the grinder style but he is willing to play physical and dig at pucks in the corners if he has to.  It might be interesting to see if that could become a line to wear down the opposition in the offensive zone for a change.  It would really waste Kadri's speed/offensive talents though unless Kulemin suddenly discovers a 15-20 goal pace again.

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

Clarkson on an 82 game pace for 24 points, and a 72 game pace for 21 points.  MacArthur has 20 points already for Ottawa.

Clarkson's going to have to REALLY turn it up if he wants to change perceptions and have an impact.  His deal could go south very quickly.

For comparing players I always thought that:
3rd line $5.5 MIL Center Grabovski was bought out and replaced with 3rd line $3.375 MIL center Bolland:
Grabovski - 27 gp  8 goals
Bolland - 15 gp  6 goals

3rd line $3.25 MIL LW MacArthur was replaced with 3rd line $1 MIL LW Raymond:
MacArthur - 26 gp  8  goals
Raymomd  -  27 gp  9  goals

3rd line $0.875 MIL RW Frattin was replaced with 3rd line $5.25 MIL RW Clarkson:
Frattin - 22 gp  2  goals
Clarkson - 27 gp 2  goals

I honestly felt the other 2 players were effectively replaced at a cap savings.

On the other hand, Clarkson is currently playing well below 3rd line expectations number-wise.  I thought that this year he would get 15 goals and 25 assists with his rugged play and he still might.  That still wouldn't justify his salary but would at least be a respectable point total for a 3rd line player.  I mean Clarkson really looks bad at this point for the Leafs as Frattin is starting to be considered a bust at less that $1 MIL and he has matched Clarkson's output.

Not to comment on anything that was said aside from Clakson being listed as having played 27 games. He's only played 17.

 

[drummond]

    Nonis had me think Clarkson would be like the Wendel, or even Guru Roberts. nyet. is more like me but with less goals, language, and teeth.
    ? Leo Komarov (@CorporalKomarov) December 2, 2013

 

[Britishbulldog]

3rd line $0.875 MIL RW Frattin was replaced with 3rd line $5.25 MIL RW Clarkson:
Frattin - 22 gp  2  goals
Clarkson - 27 17 gp 2  goals

Not to comment on anything that was said aside from Clakson being listed as having played 27 games. He's only played 17.

You're right.  Thanks for catching that.  It was actually 12:53 am my time when I posted it.

 

[Britishbulldog]

    Nonis had me think Clarkson would be like the Wendel, or even Guru Roberts. nyet. is more like me but with less goals, language, and teeth.
    ? Leo Komarov (@CorporalKomarov) December 2, 2013

I thought you were joking so I looked it up...

https://twitter.com/CorporalKomarov

 

[CarltonTheBear]

This has been brought up a few times already, but that's a parody account for anybody who didn't know.

 

[Rebel_1812]

    Nonis had me think Clarkson would be like the Wendel, or even Guru Roberts. nyet. is more like me but with less goals, language, and teeth.
    ? Leo Komarov (@CorporalKomarov) December 2, 2013

I thought you were joking so I looked it up...

https://twitter.com/CorporalKomarov

They should fight it out.

 

[Britishbulldog]

This has been brought up a few times already, but that's a parody account for anybody who didn't know.

:-[

Although I thought the photo of the 5 rats caught in one trap had a funny caption: "Please tell Marchand that his family won't be able to make the game tonight"  ;D

 

[Highlander]

Glad to find out that is a parody account as they stuff Komarov is saying would mean he would never be back. I actually found him to be a real addition to this team and I sincerely want him back next year.
When oh when are we going to jettison Bolthead, Mclaren and Frazer.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Glad to find out that is a parody account as they stuff Komarov is saying would mean he would never be back. I actually found him to be a real addition to this team and I sincerely want him back next year.
When oh when are we going to jettison Bolthead, Mclaren and Frazer.

Miss Komarov.  So do the Leafs, since he would have helped their lineup again if he had been there this year.  Too bad.  Hope he comes back.

 

[mc]

From Damien Cox:

Free agent fumbles: So exactly what was David Clarkson doing standing - STANDING - three feet offside in the third period last night, thus negating a perfect home run pass from Jake Gardiner to Trevor Smith?

Hard to say. It was just weird. But it sort of fit with Clarkson's very strange season.
The 10-game suspension at the beginning of the season just killed him, and you have to wonder if he'll be able to get it going at any point this season.

But before you conclude that the seven-year deal he got from the Leafs last summer was a bust, remember that he's got time to right the ship.

And remember that free agent misses can happen to anybody.

 

[Andy007]

So the Star hired a new sports writer who is also named Damien Cox?

 

[moon111]

...(edit)...

On the other hand, Clarkson is currently playing well below 3rd line expectations number-wise.  I thought that this year he would get 15 goals and 25 assists with his rugged play and he still might. ...(edit)...

If we take 15 goals, 25 assists over 80 games... at that pace we'd expect  3.56 goals, 5.6 assists right now.  He has 2 goals 3 assists so as he stands right now, he's 1.5 goals and 2.6 assists shy of that pace.  With the centers the Leafs have been forced to ice, this drop isn't that unexpected.

 

[Bullfrog]

???

That's a significant drop off in rate. Is it meaningful over the whole season? Well, that depends on whether he continues at the same rate or it increases significantly so that the 15 goals/25 assists benchmark is met.

I'll point out, though, that Clarkson has never come close to the 25 assist mark.

 

[Jolly good show chaps]

Sounds like we'd be just as good with Jeremy Clarkson in the lineup instead