GhostofPotvin29
New member
Bullfrog said:
Makes it easier to ignore sucking on the PK. Like waving something shiny in front of your face for a distraction.
Fixing the PK
- Thread starter slapshot
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Makes it easier to ignore sucking on the PK. Like waving something shiny in front of your face for a distraction.
drummond said:
Im all for bringing up AHLers to help kill the PKs. If they dont put their faces in front of point shots to block them then theyre out, and we bring up another AHLer. You dont think a guy like Zigomanis or Scott would do anything to be called up and stay up? I think they would...
Bullfrog said:
Well, Greg Scott while killing penalties managed to score 2 goals and add 1 assists, leading the AHL in that category. I guess, he must be doing something right on the PK. If nothing else, the attacking team must be a little bit more cautious, which is definately not the case facing scoreless Dupuis. Scott is also useful well beyond the PK (3+3 on PP and 4+4 in 5 on 5). This is what I meant by my rant on Dupuis. He was meant to be good penaly killer. He is only so-so. He is not spectacular in any other aspect of the game. Give me a single reason, why he is up there, what he is doing better or more efficiently than any given Marlie (Mueller, Boyce, Scott to name a few)? Why not to give a shot to those kids who may bring something/whatever to the table. That?s all.
GhostofPotvin29
New member
drummond said:
It's one thing to do it at the AHL level, it's another all together to do it at the NHL level. While teams in the AHL might have to be cautious against him on the PP, that won't necessarily be so in the NHL.
I mean Dupuis had 6 goals last season (2 less than Brent) including a SH goal (same as Brent).
I don't think he's a problem on the team - he hasn't scored, but it seems like he does all the other little things right. I don't know how anyone could make the case he's a better or worse PKer than Brent, or even Scott who we have never seen in the NHL.
Leaflifer said:
You might be onto something there. A large part of the game of hockey is confidence. I'd like to see the Leafs adopt a very aggressive pursuit of the puck carrier on their PK. Make it a mission to score short-handed and use that speed they have. If they get scored on-so what? They are getting scored on now.
Yeah, it's easier said than done, but sometimes it just takes a bit of an attitude adjustment and then things click.
It's kind of hilarious to me when I consider the notion that the best option for Dupuis on the pk, second in shtoi amongst forwards with the Leafs, is an AHL player that's never played in the NHL.
At this point last year he had 3g3a +3, hardly something to worry about now, yeah it'd be nice to see him get a couple but there are way more serious problems with the Leafs than that.
At this point last year he had 3g3a +3, hardly something to worry about now, yeah it'd be nice to see him get a couple but there are way more serious problems with the Leafs than that.
Seems to be a lot of focus on the forwards.
When you have the second worst PK in the NHL, it's probably fair to argue that the forwards, dmen, goaltending and coaching are all suspect.
Let's look at the D for a moment.
When in their career have the following dmen proven to be proficient on the PK in the NHL?:
Not used often by Wilson:
Liles - didn't do much with Colorado in a PK role - Wilson's used him less than a minute/game - sparingly - in my opinion, he's not great at it to put it mildly
Franson - wasn't even used much in that role in the AHL & CHL much less Nashville - he's not that strong 5 on 5 defensively and Wilson has been careful with who he's out against for that reason - Wilson's rightfully avoided him on the PK like the plague
Wilson's the top 4 dmen Pkers:
Phaneuf - did some 2nd pairing PK in Calgary and Calgary was respectable in his last two years there - I still have found him to be less than solid in this role
Gunnarsson - SEL to NHL and never been on a good PK unit - until some recent gaffes, he looked like their best overall Pk dman to me this season
Schenn - CHL to NHL and never been on a good NHL PK unit - has some good and weak moments
Gardiner - rookie - probably did some PK in college - ditto Schenn - has some good and weak moments
* Komisarek injured - hasn't been great at it since he's been in Toronto
There's not a true, proven shutdown PK guy in the bunch in my opinion. Schenn flirts with it but blows hot and cold. The younger guys are still learning.
If one of those four is in the penalty box, odds are, they're in trouble and going to give up some good scoring chances.
I'm convinced this group is part of the problem.
When you have the second worst PK in the NHL, it's probably fair to argue that the forwards, dmen, goaltending and coaching are all suspect.
Let's look at the D for a moment.
When in their career have the following dmen proven to be proficient on the PK in the NHL?:
Not used often by Wilson:
Liles - didn't do much with Colorado in a PK role - Wilson's used him less than a minute/game - sparingly - in my opinion, he's not great at it to put it mildly
Franson - wasn't even used much in that role in the AHL & CHL much less Nashville - he's not that strong 5 on 5 defensively and Wilson has been careful with who he's out against for that reason - Wilson's rightfully avoided him on the PK like the plague
Wilson's the top 4 dmen Pkers:
Phaneuf - did some 2nd pairing PK in Calgary and Calgary was respectable in his last two years there - I still have found him to be less than solid in this role
Gunnarsson - SEL to NHL and never been on a good PK unit - until some recent gaffes, he looked like their best overall Pk dman to me this season
Schenn - CHL to NHL and never been on a good NHL PK unit - has some good and weak moments
Gardiner - rookie - probably did some PK in college - ditto Schenn - has some good and weak moments
* Komisarek injured - hasn't been great at it since he's been in Toronto
There's not a true, proven shutdown PK guy in the bunch in my opinion. Schenn flirts with it but blows hot and cold. The younger guys are still learning.
If one of those four is in the penalty box, odds are, they're in trouble and going to give up some good scoring chances.
I'm convinced this group is part of the problem.
Stickytape
New member
I've been lurking in these forums since the start of the season, but I just had to sign up after this last game in order to talk about the Leafs' PK. I just about lost my mind watching the way that game was reffed, but even if the reffing is so bad that you might as well dress them in the opponent's jersey, the Leafs were the ones letting it count on the score board with their horrible PK.
I think there are a number of things going wrong. For starters, the defense aren't picking up guys/sticks in front of the net. It isn't enough to give your man a little shove after he's had three whacks at the puck - get in there and lifts some sticks.
Second of all, if you're going to harass the blue line, get aggressive - otherwise, you're just getting out of position for no reason. I'm glad to see several other people here agreeing on this point. With their speed, I don't see why they can't be more aggressive. It even opens up the occasional short-handed opportunity, which again, works to our advantage with all those fast legs out there.
Third of all, if you're going to be in the shooting lane, get in the shooting lane. Too often, all the guys are doing is screening the goalie without providing any significant chance of a shot block, nor a deterrent to shooting that would make the other guys waste more time trying to find a lane.
I don't blame Reimer much at all for a lot of those goals. I think he's played well since his return, and his stats don't tell the whole story. The calls have been just awful and team has been letting him down on top of it. For that matter, I don't think I can single out any players in particular; it's been a pretty all-around stink-fest on the PK of late.
Really hoping that the guys are working hard on this during this long(ish) break before Tuesday's game. The refs have had it out for the Leafs for some bizarre reason for more than a couple games in a row, now, and I don't see why it should stop. The best we can do is work on it and make it less of a factor. I'm holding them to a pretty high standard as I think this is a pretty strong team with a lot of room to grow.
I think there are a number of things going wrong. For starters, the defense aren't picking up guys/sticks in front of the net. It isn't enough to give your man a little shove after he's had three whacks at the puck - get in there and lifts some sticks.
Second of all, if you're going to harass the blue line, get aggressive - otherwise, you're just getting out of position for no reason. I'm glad to see several other people here agreeing on this point. With their speed, I don't see why they can't be more aggressive. It even opens up the occasional short-handed opportunity, which again, works to our advantage with all those fast legs out there.
Third of all, if you're going to be in the shooting lane, get in the shooting lane. Too often, all the guys are doing is screening the goalie without providing any significant chance of a shot block, nor a deterrent to shooting that would make the other guys waste more time trying to find a lane.
I don't blame Reimer much at all for a lot of those goals. I think he's played well since his return, and his stats don't tell the whole story. The calls have been just awful and team has been letting him down on top of it. For that matter, I don't think I can single out any players in particular; it's been a pretty all-around stink-fest on the PK of late.
Really hoping that the guys are working hard on this during this long(ish) break before Tuesday's game. The refs have had it out for the Leafs for some bizarre reason for more than a couple games in a row, now, and I don't see why it should stop. The best we can do is work on it and make it less of a factor. I'm holding them to a pretty high standard as I think this is a pretty strong team with a lot of room to grow.
crazyperfectdevil
New member
why can't goaltending be the issue? I'm not saying it's going to stay that way...but it seems odd to me that the penalty gets better and better until we switch goalies ..
proteus2000
New member
I agree that the Leafs' positioning on the PK is atrocious- One of the PKers seem to panic quickly and everybody else follows suit, leaving guys on the other side open all over the place. Steckel loses most draws in the defensive end now, so they don't even have that going anymore.
I wonder why Zigomanis doesn't get another call-up. He's a journeyman who isn't hindered by moving between the Marlies and Leafs. I thought he was really solid after the first 8 games last yr before being sent down- won draws, played a smart game, great PKer. I didn't understand why he was sent down to begin with, perfect 4th line center.
I wonder why Zigomanis doesn't get another call-up. He's a journeyman who isn't hindered by moving between the Marlies and Leafs. I thought he was really solid after the first 8 games last yr before being sent down- won draws, played a smart game, great PKer. I didn't understand why he was sent down to begin with, perfect 4th line center.
Corn Flake
New member
cw said:
Its tough when they are pretty darned good at everything else, especially their recent record 5-on-5 and the PP. Do you make a change to bring in a veteran PK d-man or two and risk losing ability in other areas?
I still think the #1 PK problem is forwards not blocking enough shots and/or passes. Its arguably the hardest job on the PK, but has to have some success for the PK to be a success.
They were doing quite well in November.. need to get back to that level and try to establish some consistency going forward.
L K
Active member
Corn Flake said:
I agree that blocking shots is a problem, but I think stick checking by the defensemen is just as much of a problem. If you strategy is to allow the opposition guy in front of the net to play behind you, he can never have control of his stick when the puck is near him, that's getting deflected/slammed home on a rebound. They either need to change their strategy to make the defenseman in front of the net not let the offensive player get the inside advantage, or they need to start taking away his stick.
As for the forwards, they just need to take away the room for shots. I don't think it is blocking shots themselves that is the problem, I think they just get stuck in this no-mans land where they come up on the shooter, but not enough to actually prevent the shot. If they actually take away the shot, they are forcing the opposition to pass the puck around rather than getting screened shots on net. Pick a strategy...either pressure the shooter, or get set to block any incoming shot, don't go half-way in between.
Mikhail Bloodnovsky
New member
This year's PK strategy of 'high school ball hockey swarming of the puck' is about as disastrous as past year's 'stand and wave your stick like an idiot' strategy.
GhostofPotvin29
New member
At least you know they are working hard at it:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/gunnarsson-slips-in-the-lineup/article2268183/
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/gunnarsson-slips-in-the-lineup/article2268183/
lamajama said:
There's a clause in the CBA that essentially protects journeymen AHLers from re-entry waivers. Basically a player has to meet two conditions (playing a certain amount of professional games in North America AND not being on a NHL roster for a long-period of time within the past season or two) and if he does he's exempt from that process. Ziggy meets those conditions.
And since Ziggy cleared waivers earlier in the season, he's exempt from regular waivers until he plays 10 NHL games or spends 30 days on a NHL roster.
Optimus Reimer
New member
Potvin29 said:
