Habs @ Leafs - Oct. 3rd, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590

[Coco-puffs]

The structure (as I see it this year anyways) is to have all three options open to the defenseman.  The order of what option to use goes something like this:

a)  Short pass to Center swinging low
b)  Short pass to Strong side Winger on half-boards (he's typically not moving, so he's then looking for the centerman or far side winger... often he's also under pressure from a pinching d-man, so often he's gonna have to just chip it out)
c)  Stretch pass to Weak side winger who is flying the zone BUT SHOULD BE MOVING, NOT STATIONARY
d)  Off the glass and out

The weak side winger is useless as a passing option if he's still in the zone.. the defenseman would be passing right through the slot and that isn't a great idea.  So I highly doubt you'll stop seeing ONE winger fly the zone.  Sometimes both are, and it takes away option b above and I don't like that.

 

[dappleganger]

Whos the odd man out once Nylander comes back?

If the decision had to be made today, it's probably Johnsson.

Ennis out, Levio is better suited for the "checking line". Johnsson is done being seasoned in the AHL. Ennis was the depth guy brought in.

Ennis could slot in at 4C but his face off win percentage leaves a little to be desired.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

You guys talk about systems like it removes the player's ability to think. What I'm seeing is poor decisions repeatedly. Not poor planning.

Agree 100%. The problem isn't the coaching. It's the capability of the defencemen. I'm sure Babcock would love to have a high end defence corp that could reliably maintain possession and make good decisions while transitioning or skating the puck out. But, he doesn't, and you get the puck off the glass/long stretch pass for tip into the other zone that everyone despises, but it worked a lot better than expecting high end plays from a low-end group.

Rielly and Gardiner are both elite at this. And the option of having the forwards supporting the defence while breaking out of the zone adds to the amount of elite players available to skate/transition the puck out. I absolutely believe that the system is, mostly, to blame for alot of those struggles.

Of course in Game 1 there were a ton of sloppy plays and errant passes and Ron Hainsey was an absolute trainwreck. That certainly doesn't help the breakout issues.

Rielly and Gardiner are not elite at doing anything. They are pretty good at some of the aspects of the game and downright awful at others. Elite puts them in a class they simply are not in.

My point is not what the system is. I do believe that the Leafs want a quick transition that pushes the puck up the ice as quickly as possible(it's not just toronto, it's a method being introduced across the board in hockey). And really, it's not the stretch passes that I take issues with. The reason those stretch passes occur is Toronto is turning the puck around so quickly that the F's have only recovered to the redline at that point. The getting stuck in your own zone against a subpar team is not the breakout system's fault. The instances where the Leafs get trapped is when the opposing team has control of the puck in the O zone and the Leafs regain possession. That's when the wheels fall off. Unadvised passes and weak, slow plays along the boards has nothing to do with system. That has to do with ability and sense.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

a)  Short pass to Center swinging low
b)  Short pass to Strong side Winger on half-boards (he's typically not moving, so he's then looking for the centerman or far side winger... often he's also under pressure from a pinching d-man, so often he's gonna have to just chip it out)
c)  Stretch pass to Weak side winger who is flying the zone BUT SHOULD BE MOVING, NOT STATIONARY
d)  Off the glass and out

In an ideal world, those are your options breaking out of your zone. So, if that is the system or ideal structure, why do the Leaf's defence seem to always choose Option C? That's not a system issue. That's a brain power issue.

 

[Strangelove]

You guys talk about systems like it removes the player's ability to think. What I'm seeing is poor decisions repeatedly. Not poor planning.

Agree 100%. The problem isn't the coaching. It's the capability of the defencemen. I'm sure Babcock would love to have a high end defence corp that could reliably maintain possession and make good decisions while transitioning or skating the puck out. But, he doesn't, and you get the puck off the glass/long stretch pass for tip into the other zone that everyone despises, but it worked a lot better than expecting high end plays from a low-end group.

Rielly and Gardiner are both elite at this. And the option of having the forwards supporting the defence while breaking out of the zone adds to the amount of elite players available to skate/transition the puck out. I absolutely believe that the system is, mostly, to blame for alot of those struggles.

Of course in Game 1 there were a ton of sloppy plays and errant passes and Ron Hainsey was an absolute trainwreck. That certainly doesn't help the breakout issues.

Rielly and Gardiner are not elite at doing anything. They are pretty good at some of the aspects of the game and downright awful at others. Elite puts them in a class they simply are not in.

They are both top 15 amongst defencemen in points, which speaks to their ability to move the puck. They are absolutely elite offensively and in transition. But Babcock's system often doesn't use them properly because it requires almost everyone to be standing still rather than moving up ice with possession of the puck.

Babcock's system acts as though the team is made up of Hainseys and Komarovs, rather than  elite puck-movers.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

You guys talk about systems like it removes the player's ability to think. What I'm seeing is poor decisions repeatedly. Not poor planning.

Agree 100%. The problem isn't the coaching. It's the capability of the defencemen. I'm sure Babcock would love to have a high end defence corp that could reliably maintain possession and make good decisions while transitioning or skating the puck out. But, he doesn't, and you get the puck off the glass/long stretch pass for tip into the other zone that everyone despises, but it worked a lot better than expecting high end plays from a low-end group.

Rielly and Gardiner are both elite at this. And the option of having the forwards supporting the defence while breaking out of the zone adds to the amount of elite players available to skate/transition the puck out. I absolutely believe that the system is, mostly, to blame for alot of those struggles.

Of course in Game 1 there were a ton of sloppy plays and errant passes and Ron Hainsey was an absolute trainwreck. That certainly doesn't help the breakout issues.

Rielly and Gardiner are not elite at doing anything. They are pretty good at some of the aspects of the game and downright awful at others. Elite puts them in a class they simply are not in.

They are both top 15 amongst defencemen in points, which speaks to their ability to move the puck. They are absolutely elite offensively and in transition. But Babcock's system often doesn't use them properly because it requires almost everyone to be standing still rather than moving up ice with possession of the puck.

Babcock's system acts as though the team is made up of Hainseys and Komarovs, rather than  elite puck-movers.

I'm sorry man but I don't buy it. My atom aged girls team does not have any form of a breakout where the players are standing still. There is no way that Babcock is teaching a breakout that involves players standing still.

As for the elite part, perhaps I'm a little pickier than just saying they get lots of points so they must be elite.

 

[Andy007]

Being elite or simply having an elite skill are two different things though. I don't think any of us here are calling either of the two elite; we're just pointing out that they both possess elite skating/offensive skills.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Being elite or simply having an elite skill are two different things though. I don't think any of us here are calling either of the two elite; we're just pointing out that they both possess elite skating/offensive skills.

Ok I can agree with that. I'd give Rielly both of the above but just average defensive skills. I could probably be convinced to say Gardiner has elite offensive skills but I don't know that I could bring myself to go much further than that.

Neither seem to have elite decision making abilities.