Idiocracy

[Heroic Shrimp]

Here's Cox on Tim Thomas not going to the White House. They should just stop the practise and take all politics out of it for athletes.

Who is "they"?  Any president is free to invite whatever teams they want to to the White House, and any invited team and their individual members are free to accept or decline that invitation.

Sorry sports Leagues.

To do that, it would literally have to be worked into each league's CBA to forbid a visit to the White House despite an invitation.  This is something that you think should be done?

 

[Bates]

Here's Cox on Tim Thomas not going to the White House. They should just stop the practise and take all politics out of it for athletes.

Who is "they"?  Any president is free to invite whatever teams they want to to the White House, and any invited team and their individual members are free to accept or decline that invitation.

Sorry sports Leagues.

To do that, it would literally have to be worked into each league's CBA to forbid a visit to the White House despite an invitation.  This is something that you think should be done?

No, League could simply announce that they will no longer continue this practise as a League. Players are free to do as they choose. I think it would lead to less of this noise.

 

[Kin]

"The League" has no authority beyond the will of the owners and I don't think there's any actual mechanism here by which the league could enforce such a policy. If owners wanted the practice to stop, they'd stop the practice.

But that ignores that most owners are conservative Billionaires or basically the only natural constituency Trump has.

 

[Bullfrog]

I'm good with just pausing the practice while a white supremacist is President. This isn't that complicated.

I don't have a problem with that either but I do think that absent something like that, it is valuable to see where people stand on these things.

Ah yeah, sorry, "pausing" wasn't the right word. I want Trump to keep the invites going but I also want more teams, or at least the players, standing up and politely (or not so politely) declining them.

If Tom Stillman wanted to go meet Trump, yeah whatever big surprise. It's a disappointment to see all the Blues' players happy to be involved with this.

I don't think it's disappointing for them to participate given that it's essentially a meaningless ceremony. I imagine for some it's an honour to participate in an event at the white house, despite them disliking the president and everything he stands for. I think, as Nik alluded to, that both the president and the people are smart enough to recognize that participation in this event isn't an endorsement of the president.

I'm pretty sure I'd go despite thinking Trump is a slime-ball and embarrassment to democracy.

In 10 years, I could tell my son: "I got to meet the dirt-bag president once; I resisted the urge to punch him in the face or make it a political event because I'm a decent human being. The tour of the grounds was fun."

 

[Kin]

I don't think it's disappointing for them to participate given that it's essentially a meaningless ceremony. I imagine for some it's an honour to participate in an event at the white house, despite them disliking the president and everything he stands for. I think, as Nik alluded to, that both the president and the people are smart enough to recognize that participation in this event isn't an endorsement of the president.

Just to be clear, I very much mean the opposite. While attending may not be an explicit endorsement of the President, I think it still is.

And to be emphatic, I in no way think that Trump is smart enough to know that this isn't an endorsement of himself personally.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Here's Cox on Tim Thomas not going to the White House. They should just stop the practise and take all politics out of it for athletes.

Who is "they"?  Any president is free to invite whatever teams they want to to the White House, and any invited team and their individual members are free to accept or decline that invitation.

Sorry sports Leagues.

To do that, it would literally have to be worked into each league's CBA to forbid a visit to the White House despite an invitation.  This is something that you think should be done?

No, League could simply announce that they will no longer continue this practise as a League. Players are free to do as they choose. I think it would lead to less of this noise.

It is not a league practice.  The White House doesn't call league officials first to ask permission to invite a team.  The White House invites a team and the team accepts or declines the invitation, that's it.  The league itself has no formal involvement, and if they wish to have formal involvement in forbidding players from accepting an invitation, they'd have to put it in their CBA through negotiation with the players.  And I assume confidently that that is a negotiation that neither side would have an appetite to engage in.

 

[Bullfrog]

My apologies, I misunderstood your statement about Bush and the Miami Heat.

When you say that you think it's an endorsement, are you referring specifically to sports teams, or any public ceremony/meeting with the president?

 

[Kin]

My apologies, I misunderstood your statement about Bush and the Miami Heat.

When you say that you think it's an endorsement, are you referring specifically to sports teams, or any public ceremony/meeting with the president?

The latter. But to be crystal clear, I don't use "endorsement" to  mean like a full-throated statement of ideological unity but even just a "I don't find this person sufficiently repellent enough to be nowhere near him" sort of thing. The point I was making with Bush and the Heat was that I think Bush knew that these visits weren't about ultimately about him and Trump thinks everything is about him and as such makes them about him and, as a result, they sort of end up being about him.

Personally, the only four Presidents I'd have accepted White House invites from are Lincoln, Grant, Eisenhower and Carter.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

I'm good with just pausing the practice while a white supremacist is President. This isn't that complicated.

I don't have a problem with that either but I do think that absent something like that, it is valuable to see where people stand on these things.

Ah yeah, sorry, "pausing" wasn't the right word. I want Trump to keep the invites going but I also want more teams, or at least the players, standing up and politely (or not so politely) declining them.

If Tom Stillman wanted to go meet Trump, yeah whatever big surprise. It's a disappointment to see all the Blues' players happy to be involved with this.

I don't think it's disappointing for them to participate given that it's essentially a meaningless ceremony. I imagine for some it's an honour to participate in an event at the white house, despite them disliking the president and everything he stands for. I think, as Nik alluded to, that both the president and the people are smart enough to recognize that participation in this event isn't an endorsement of the president.

I'm pretty sure I'd go despite thinking Trump is a slime-ball and embarrassment to democracy.

In 10 years, I could tell my son: "I got to meet the dirt-bag president once; I resisted the urge to punch him in the face or make it a political event because I'm a decent human being. The tour of the grounds was fun."

I wouldn't at all begrudge you for going, but I'd also observe that you could make the alternate choice, and in 10 years you could proudly tell your son you made a controversial choice to stand up for something you believe in.  Your son would be proud of you either way about your accomplishment in athletics, but one choice would would allow him to proud of you for your integrity, too.

 

[Bullfrog]

I hear you on that. I suppose I just don't see refusing to go the White House as a show of my integrity, particularly when I'm standing with the peers that matter to me: my teammates.

I see their presence there as having a lot less meaning than you do. Seeing Steen laugh with the president changes absolutely nothing about how I view him as a person, nor does it in anyone give me a hint into his political idealology.

I do understand Nik's last point about endorsement. I can see how people would view participation as an indirect acceptance of his behavior (as in, "it's not bad enough for me to stay home")

Despite Trump making it all about him, I still view the event as a ceremony celebrating the team's championship. Perhaps I'm willfully ignoring Trump's actions at the event, but I'm hopeful most people do.

 

[Kin]

I think anytime someone sticks to a principle of theirs it's a show of integrity, provided it's genuine. Even someone like Tim Thomas, who I think was wrong and misguided, at least seemed like a genuine nutjob instead of an opportunist.

But as CtB has pointed out this isn't an issue of political ideology. Overwhelmingly black athletes aren't going because they view it as a matter not of endorsing Conservative politics but of endorsing Racism. I think it looks very, very bad for a league that's preaching inclusivity to see what NBA players are overwhelmingly saying and going "Nah, we're still in it". I think it smacks of the sort of myopia you can only really have with a sport that's so overwhelmingly monochromatic.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Memo to Tim Apple:

[tweet]1187861209942495234[/tweet]

[tweet]1187878306559025153[/tweet]

But, but...

[tweet]1187862803518017541[/tweet]

Must teach, must teach:

[tweet]1187861650386362368[/tweet]

 

[CarltonTheBear]

The Nationals are visiting the White House, but at least one player won't be going with them. And it's not because he disagrees with trickle-down economics or whatever, it's because of the racism:

https://twitter.com/JamesFallows/status/1190496372925095938

 

[Kin]

Anyone who thinks going to the White House right now can be an apolitical statement should watch the video of Kurt Suzuki and Trump.

That said, the list of players who chose not to go eventually grew to about 7 or 8 apparently.

 

[Bullfrog]

My original points still stand to a degree (specifically that I don't think it's a political statement to attend), but I have to admit that I'm starting to be swayed to the other side: that I'm now more likely to decline an invitation. I find Trump morally repugnant; why should I stand next to him and grin and bear it?

 

[Kin]

In another administration this might be funny:

Trump official embellished resume, faked Time Magazine cover

 

[L K]

So Congress votes on Impeachment on Wednesday. 

Over/Under set a 30 minutes for McConnell to dismiss all charges and declare Trump the most innocent man in the history of the universe.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

So Congress votes on Impeachment on Wednesday. 

Over/Under set a 30 minutes for McConnell to dismiss all charges and declare Trump the most innocent man in the history of the universe.

I mean that basically already happened yesterday:
https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1205311801212190727

 

[bustaheims]

The Republican are absolutely right when they've called impeachment a sham - because, of course, they're the ones making it a sham.

 

[hockeyfan1]

This is an outrage.  Only under Donald Trump, you say? Pity!

U.S border officials to be given unprecedented powers over Canadian traveller?s rights including the rights of Canadian citizens...on Canadian soil.  Very well in keeping with Trump?s contempt for cooperation & cross-border /international law.

Crazy.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/opinion-border-crossing-rights-1.5382547