Jays Roster Discussion

[Kin]

My problem is Jose hasn't learned to play 1B and you can't DH him.  He's a bad defender in the outfield so he's really limiting his value.  15M isn't horrible for him but it isn't like the Jays are getting a deal with him either.

I don't know if he's played enough 1B to really say one way or the other how he'd do there on a semi-regular basis. I certainly don't think Pearce or Smoak are easily preferable options to form a DH/1B platoon with Morales though.

That said, it's hard to see a ton of upside here either.

 

[Andy007]

My problem is Jose hasn't learned to play 1B and you can't DH him.  He's a bad defender in the outfield so he's really limiting his value.  15M isn't horrible for him but it isn't like the Jays are getting a deal with him either.

I don't know if he's played enough 1B to really say one way or the other how he'd do there on a semi-regular basis. I certainly don't think Pearce or Smoak are easily preferable options to form a DH/1B platoon with Morales though.

That said, it's hard to see a ton of upside here either.

I guess you could stick both Pearce and Bautista in LF whenever you need to and have them split 1B duties, leaving Morales as the primary DH. Bautista's defence in left couldn't be any worse than Saunders' last year, provided Toronto finds a capable right fielder (Granderson??) and uses Upton as the 4th OF.

15 million per for Bautista on a short term deal really doesn't have much downside either.

 

[Kin]

15 million per for Bautista on a short term deal really doesn't have much downside either.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by downside. I agree that it's not a deal that would bury the Jays or anything but I'd have a number of concerns.

1. I wouldn't be too sure about Bautista's defense vs. Saunders'. Bautista was graded at a -1.4 by BR last year and Saunders was a -1.7. Admittedly that's the difference between Saunders in Left and Bautista in right where the baseline figures to be a little higher but add on another year of age to Bautista and it might be pretty close.

2. To that end you have to wonder how much Bautista's bat can come back. If it can then, sure, he's valuable in Left despite the defense. If not, you could very well have a situation where he's effectively the same as Saunders last year.

3. I'd wonder the extent to which Bautista could then handle, ego-wise, being in a reduced role.

4. Likewise, you have to at least wonder about the wisdom of continuing to just stack the lineup with righthanded power bats. I think the last two LCS' showed us how that can backfire.

5. To that end, you have to wonder if that 15 million couldn't be more effectively spent elsewhere given the Jays' limited budget.

This is where I'm a little puzzled, I suppose, by the Morales deal. I get that he's a switch hitter but it seems like if Bautista was available and could slide into the DH role that might be the higher upside move. 

 

[Andy007]

I agree on all points really. Granted it's hindsight now but it looks like they misread the market and rushed to sign Morales (and gave him 3 years to boot).

I was hoping they'd be in on Joyce, who would have been a perfect platoon with Upton, and make a move for someone like Granderson to patrol right. Then you could have had one of EE or Jose DH fulltime.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Edwin 3 years at 20 per to Cleveland.

Club has an option for a 4th year at the same price.

 

[Kin]

Jeez, I'd rather have that than Morales + Pearce.

 

[L K]

Jeez, I'd rather have that than Morales + Pearce.

Don't forget those semi-regular at bats for Smoak.

Morales + Smoak + Pearce = 20.375M

57HR 162RBI for the trio vs. 42HR 127 RBI for Eddie

 

[bustaheims]

Edwin 3 years at 20 per to Cleveland.

Club has an option for a 4th year at the same price.

Very similar to what the Jays initially offered him. If they hadn't been so quick to move on, they probably could have signed him to this deal.

 

[Captain Canuck]

Most of the blame should be pointed squarely at Paul Kinzer as far as Edwin no longer being a Jay. He cost his client money and the chance to stay in the city he wanted to keep playing in.

I understand what people are saying about Shapiro and Atkins though, despite the Jays offering Edwin the best deal as it turned out. I certainly never got the impression they would move off the 4 years, $80 million. It was more a take it or leave it offer and don't believe they particularly cared if Edwin stayed or not. I believe that holds true for Jose as well.

Thank you Edwin for all you have done in a Jays uniform! One of the all-time greats in team history and that walk-off HR against the O's in the Wild Card game ranks up there as one of the best Jays moments. 

 

[hockeyfan1]

Most of the blame should be pointed squarely at Paul Kinzer as far as Edwin no longer being a Jay. He cost his client money and the chance to stay in the city he wanted to keep playing in.

I understand what people are saying about Shapiro and Atkins though, despite the Jays offering Edwin the best deal as it turned out. I certainly never got the impression they would move off the 4 years, $80 million. It was more a take it or leave it offer and don't believe they particularly cared if Edwin stayed or not. I believe that holds true for Jose as well.

Thank you Edwin for all you have done in a Jays uniform! One of the all-time greats in team history and that walk-off HR against the O's in the Wild Card game ranks up there as one of the best Jays moments.

I say, "Bravo, Edwin!"  Sad to see him leave, but he'll remain a favourite Blue Jay to baseball aficionados in this city for a long time to come.

 

[Andy007]

Yea that's a very nice deal for EE.

Morales + Pearce + low-mid 30's draft pick + 20million left over, though, isn't that bad a consolation prize.

 

[Kin]

Yea that's a very nice deal for EE.

Morales + Pearce + low-mid 30's draft pick + 20million left over, though, isn't that bad a consolation prize.

Isn't it more like 5 million left over? Morales and Pearce are making 15 or so combined.

 

[Redleaf]

I don't follow the Jays enough to get a real feel for what sort of an impact this off season will have on the fortunes of this club moving forward. Anyone want to chime in with what the big picture looks like now? Has all hope diminished or will they still be a good team next season?

 

[Peter D.]

I understand what people are saying about Shapiro and Atkins though, despite the Jays offering Edwin the best deal as it turned out. I certainly never got the impression they would move off the 4 years, $80 million. It was more a take it or leave it offer and don't believe they particularly cared if Edwin stayed or not. I believe that holds true for Jose as well.

This is where it makes no sense to me.  Edwin just signed for less than what the Jays offered.  If they were to move off 4/80, a quarter less in both terms and dollars would, I don't know, would have actually worked in their favour. 

 

[Kin]

Most of the blame should be pointed squarely at Paul Kinzer as far as Edwin no longer being a Jay. He cost his client money and the chance to stay in the city he wanted to keep playing in.

How do you figure? Edwin is an adult. He's fully capable of saying "I want to take this deal" when the Jays offered it. If Kinzer then tells Edwin that he thinks he can get more in free agency then that decision is still Edwin's to make.

 

[Andy007]

Yea that's a very nice deal for EE.

Morales + Pearce + low-mid 30's draft pick + 20million left over, though, isn't that bad a consolation prize.

Isn't it more like 5 million left over? Morales and Pearce are making 15 or so combined.

I just calculated the numbers in a lazier, more favourably to my point way: 33 million for Morales, 12 for Pearce compared to (minimum) of 65 for Edwin.

 

[Kin]

I just calculated the numbers in a lazier, more favourably to my point way: 33 million for Morales, 12 for Pearce compared to (minimum) of 65 for Edwin.

No, it's a fair point. I made the same calculation re: Happ vs. Price last year.

 

[Darryl]

I'll miss Edwin but Morales can replace a good deal of his production. The hole I am worried about are in the corner outfield spots. Those need to be addressed.

 

[Deebo]

I'll miss Edwin but Morales can replace a good deal of his production. The hole I am worried about are in the corner outfield spots. Those need to be addressed.

The bullpen needs some work too.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Does the tax rate have anything to do with EE's decision to leave?

http://www.tsn.ca/agent-encarnacion-turned-down-more-money-to-sign-with-indians-1.637760
Kinzer said Encarnacion may wind up bringing home more money in three seasons with Cleveland than he would have in four years with the Blue Jays.
?It?s close,? he said. ?Our guys ran the numbers last night. They were really close.?

Pro athletes in Toronto face paying a combined tax rate of 53.53 per cent based on the total number of days they spend in Canada, said Robert Raiola, an accountant in New York who works for pro athletes and teams.
In Cleveland, Raiola said the combined top rate is about 47 per cent. (The federal government takes 39.6 per cent of annual income, while Ohio takes 5 per cent and Cleveland has a 2 per cent tax, he said.)

?Those numbers are changing soon under Trump,? Raiola said. ?He has talked about lowering the top federal rate to 33 per cent. That gap between Canada and the U.S. is only going to widen. I don?t know how Canadian teams are going to be able to compete for free agents without wildly overpaying.?