Kovalchuk Announces His Retirement

[MetalRaven]

I agree. Sentimentality aside, a big part of his legacy will be as a quitter, and that's going to hurt his chances a lot.

If he left a KHL contact to join the NHL would he be labeled a quitter?

By KHL fans? Yup.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

He played 3 out of 15. Pretty close to immediately.

20% is pretty far from immediately in most books.

Well not in mine!!! 

In all seriousness I was just being hyperbolic. You and Shrimp have to ruin everything!

We don't have to, we just choose to.

 

[MetalRaven]

He played 3 out of 15. Pretty close to immediately.

20% is pretty far from immediately in most books.

Well not in mine!!! 

In all seriousness I was just being hyperbolic. You and Shrimp have to ruin everything!

We don't have to, we just choose to.

Thats the funny thing with numbers and words if I were to say he only completed 1/5 of his contract it does seem more immediate then 20% which actually feels like he did more. 20%? He was almost halfway there! 1/5? Punk didnt even try!

 

[Mot the Barber]

I'm probably more sympathetic towards Kovalchuk than most. I just can't blame a guy for making a family oriented decision. Yeah, it will most likely leave a bad taste in most people's mouths but to be fair to the player, he probably knew that going in which likely made the decision all the more difficult. I can't say I have any less respect for the guy than I did last week to be honest.

EDIT: I don't like the timing though.  :-\

But is that really true? The guy is going back to Russia to play in a league where he will probably double his annual salary. Moreover, nobody held a gun to his head and told him to sign a huge, long term NHL contract. I'm actually surprised so many people on here are defending the guy; this is a pretty selfish, spineless move if you ask me.

Would you feel that way if he retired from the KHL to play in the NHL?  Probably not, you'd welcome him with open arms.  I think your feelings are hurt because he quit "your" league to go play for that "rival" league.

Nope because I can't stand Kovalchuck. This dates back to the WJC where he was just an embarassment on the ice.

Well that's your problem. You can't call someone selfish and spineless just because you don't like him for whatever delusional reasons you've cooked up in your mind.

But hey, I'm not mad at the guy, I just think he is taking an easy way out to go make more money and play against inferior opponents. KHL isn't a rival league because it doesn't come near the talent level of the NHL. Kovalchuck is a world class talent taking a paycheque to play in a lesser league. I would feel the same way if Jose Bautista left to play in the Dominican for 20 Million a year, too.

It's his perrogative to "take the easy way out".  If he wants himself and his family to be surrounded by his own language, culture and people and make more money in the process, why shouldn't he?  Not to mention he'll play in a league that's more skill-based (which is his forte) and less violent (which lowers his chances of getting seriously injured).

But no, that's not fine by you.  Just to please you, he should stay in the NHL for less money and get concussed by violent people (edited by cw) that can't even play hockey?  OMG you're so right!! He's so spineless and selfish for not taking into consideration your feelings, even  though you admitted you can't stand him. 

 

[Mot the Barber]

I agree. Sentimentality aside, a big part of his legacy will be as a quitter, and that's going to hurt his chances a lot.

If he left a KHL contact to join the NHL would he be labeled a quitter?

Nope.  He'd be heralded as the next coming of Jesus.

 

[Mot the Barber]

Family or not he wouldn't be going home without the KHL contract. Pretty convenient to be family oriented when you're actually getting paid more to go home.

Go home without the KHL and I'd be impressed.

So you would want him to be fool just to impress you?  hahahahahaha 

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

I agree. Sentimentality aside, a big part of his legacy will be as a quitter, and that's going to hurt his chances a lot.

If he left a KHL contact to join the NHL would he be labeled a quitter?

Nope.  He'd be heralded as the next coming of Jesus.

Well, you can't blame Jesus for not wanting to play for the Devils.  What would his father think?

 

[Andy007]

I'm probably more sympathetic towards Kovalchuk than most. I just can't blame a guy for making a family oriented decision. Yeah, it will most likely leave a bad taste in most people's mouths but to be fair to the player, he probably knew that going in which likely made the decision all the more difficult. I can't say I have any less respect for the guy than I did last week to be honest.

EDIT: I don't like the timing though.  :-\

But is that really true? The guy is going back to Russia to play in a league where he will probably double his annual salary. Moreover, nobody held a gun to his head and told him to sign a huge, long term NHL contract. I'm actually surprised so many people on here are defending the guy; this is a pretty selfish, spineless move if you ask me.

Would you feel that way if he retired from the KHL to play in the NHL?  Probably not, you'd welcome him with open arms.  I think your feelings are hurt because he quit "your" league to go play for that "rival" league.

Nope because I can't stand Kovalchuck. This dates back to the WJC where he was just an embarassment on the ice.

Well that's your problem. You can't call someone selfish and spineless just because you don't like him for whatever delusional reasons you've cooked up in your mind.

But hey, I'm not mad at the guy, I just think he is taking an easy way out to go make more money and play against inferior opponents. KHL isn't a rival league because it doesn't come near the talent level of the NHL. Kovalchuck is a world class talent taking a paycheque to play in a lesser league. I would feel the same way if Jose Bautista left to play in the Dominican for 20 Million a year, too.

It's his perrogative to "take the easy way out".  If he wants himself and his family to be surrounded by his own language, culture and people and make more money in the process, why shouldn't he?  Not to mention he'll play in a league that's more skill-based (which is his forte) and less violent (which lowers his chances of getting seriously injured).

But no, that's not fine by you.  Just to please you, he should stay in the NHL for less money and get concussed by violent people (edited by cw) that can't even play hockey?  OMG you're so right!! He's so spineless and selfish for not taking into consideration your feelings, even  though you admitted you can't stand him.

Nice language. I also wonder why you are so bothered and angered by this discussion? Maybe take a break, relax, and work on those anger issues. 

P.S How is Seguin doing? He still an "immoral punk"? Yea, I guess judging people only works one way for you.

 

[bustaheims]

He played 3 out of 15. Pretty close to immediately.

20% is pretty far from immediately in most books.

Well not in mine!!! 

In all seriousness I was just being hyperbolic. You and Shrimp have to ruin everything!

We don't have to, we just choose to.

We're a ton of fun at parties.

 

[hockeyfan1]

The NHL...seems to have no problem with the notion that its contracts effectively mean nothing and that there are still ways to circumvent a collective bargaining agreement without even trying.

NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly was asked in an email whether this was circumvention of the CBA and he replied by saying: ?I wouldn't view it that way. I would view it as a player choosing to walk away from a long-term and very lucrative contract.

The Devils maintain they had nothing to do with Kovalchuk?s decision and we have no reason to doubt them, but all of this seemed way too easy. Too easy for Kovalchuk. Too easy for the Devils. And too easy for the NHL. The league, by the way, apparently vetoed a deal between the Toronto Maple Leafs and Tampa Bay Lightning that would have seen the Leafs trade for Vincent Lecavalier, then buy him out, which would allow Lecavalier to re-sign with the Lightning for more favorable terms. The league said that was a circumvention, but this is not.

Source: THN


P.S.  The Devils are currently $230M in debt. 

 

[Kin]

How could a player retiring be a circumvention of the cap?

 

[hockeyfan1]

The reason for Kovalchuk's departure (according to his mother)...

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/kovalchuk-mother-escrow-taxes-led-son-civilized-departure-132650998.html)

 

[hockeyfan1]

CBA 13.21 implies the contract can be voided by retirement.

(a) When a Club desires to terminate a Player's SPC for any reason, such action may not be taken until Unconditional Waivers have been requested and cleared in conformity with this Article. Notwithstanding this provision, a Player with a no-move clause shall have the rights set forth in Section 11.8.

(b) Subsection (a) hereof is not applicable to a Player whose name is being placed on the Voluntarily Retired List.

There is no "circumvenrion" the way some people think there is, because of the "recapture clause", and the fact that Kovalchuk voluntarily retired.

 

[MetalRaven]

How could a player retiring be a circumvention of the cap?

Right now if you take his actual paid years they are 6 mill per year for 2 years then this year it was 11 million actual paid out dollars. Because of a bunch of 1 mill years added to the end of the contract the actual cap hit for those years is 6.66 mill. If you avg out what he was actually paid it works out to 7.66 per year...in essence they avoided a 1 million/year cap hit...and that bonus just keeps getting higher until the 'drop off years' in 2018-2019
If IK decided instead to retire in year 2018-2019 the actual avg paid out to him would be 9.555 /year or a cap hit savings of nearly 3 mill/year over 9 years.

If he played out those remaining 6 (3 @ 1mill) then it wouldn't be circumvention at all...but the NHL apparently didn't believe IK would be playing till he was 42 (not unheard of) and stated the contract was an attempt to circumvent the cap so jersey lost a pick.

Again, unless my memory is wrong...which it could very well be.

 

[Jalili]

I agree. Sentimentality aside, a big part of his legacy will be as a quitter, and that's going to hurt his chances a lot.

If he left a KHL contact to join the NHL would he be labeled a quitter?

You can't really compare a KHL team to an NHL team though. One is in a league that's second rate, and it's expected that players will depart in their endeavour to play amongst the best in the world; and the other is the cream of the crop.

 

[bustaheims]

Right now if you take his actual paid years they are 6 mill per year for 2 years then this year it was 11 million actual paid out dollars. Because of a bunch of 1 mill years added to the end of the contract the actual cap hit for those years is 6.66 mill. If you avg out what he was actually paid it works out to 7.66 per year...in essence they avoided a 1 million/year cap hit...and that bonus just keeps getting higher until the 'drop off years' in 2018-2019
If IK decided instead to retire in year 2018-2019 the actual avg paid out to him would be 9.555 /year or a cap hit savings of nearly 3 mill/year over 9 years.

If he played out those remaining 6 (3 @ 1mill) then it wouldn't be circumvention at all...but the NHL apparently didn't believe IK would be playing till he was 42 (not unheard of) and stated the contract was an attempt to circumvent the cap so jersey lost a pick.

Again, unless my memory is wrong...which it could very well be.

That;s why the Devils are being tagged with a $250K cap hit penalty for the next 12 years - the cap savings they received spread out over the unplayed years of the contract. Since they didn't really receive all that much in terms of cap savings and Kovalchuk left a lot of term when he retired, the penalty isn't so steep. Had he played a couple more seasons, they would have been hammered with a much more significant penalty. In fact, had he retired after 18/19, the cap penalty would have been $4.33M for 6 seasons.

 

[MetalRaven]

Right now if you take his actual paid years they are 6 mill per year for 2 years then this year it was 11 million actual paid out dollars. Because of a bunch of 1 mill years added to the end of the contract the actual cap hit for those years is 6.66 mill. If you avg out what he was actually paid it works out to 7.66 per year...in essence they avoided a 1 million/year cap hit...and that bonus just keeps getting higher until the 'drop off years' in 2018-2019
If IK decided instead to retire in year 2018-2019 the actual avg paid out to him would be 9.555 /year or a cap hit savings of nearly 3 mill/year over 9 years.

If he played out those remaining 6 (3 @ 1mill) then it wouldn't be circumvention at all...but the NHL apparently didn't believe IK would be playing till he was 42 (not unheard of) and stated the contract was an attempt to circumvent the cap so jersey lost a pick.

Again, unless my memory is wrong...which it could very well be.

That;s why the Devils are being tagged with a $250K cap hit penalty for the next 12 years - the cap savings they received spread out over the unplayed years of the contract. Since they didn't really receive all that much in terms of cap savings and Kovalchuk left a lot of term when he retired, the penalty isn't so steep. Had he played a couple more seasons, they would have been hammered with a much more significant penalty. In fact, had he retired after 18/19, the cap penalty would have been something like $3.7M for 6 seasons.

Ok then yeah they should get their pick back...if the NHL was going to make them pay what they were getting away with anyway then the only reason they lost the pick was because the contract made the league look bad and if that is the case t.s

 

[bustaheims]

Ok then yeah they should get their pick back...if the NHL was going to make them pay what they were getting away with anyway then the only reason they lost the pick was because the contract made the league look bad and if that is the case t.s

They lost the pick because of the previous attempted 17 year contract which was rejected by the league, not the current one. As far as I'm concerned, the pick and Kovalchuk retiring aren't connected.

 

[MetalRaven]

Ok then yeah they should get their pick back...if the NHL was going to make them pay what they were getting away with anyway then the only reason they lost the pick was because the contract made the league look bad and if that is the case t.s

They lost the pick because of the previous attempted 17 year contract which was rejected by the league, not the current one. As far as I'm concerned, the pick and Kovalchuk retiring aren't connected.

Ok then No they shouldnt get their pick back....and I have no idea why, or now, even if hes trying to get it back.

Id like to thank everyone for participating Ive enjoyed representing all three sides of this debate

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Did you break a contract to take the job? I think a  certain level of responsibility is expected to be upheld when you are under a contract, if Ilya didn't see himself wanting to be here this long, he should of signed that long.

I did. Why is that an issue? I have the right, when I sign that contract to break that contract just as my employer had the right to break the contract by firing me and paying me compensation.

My only penalty for breaking the contract was that I couldn't go work for my direct competition.

I'm sorry to all those out there that feel that Ilya, myself, or anyone else has to be loyal to their employers. They're not loyal to me. If someone better at the job comes along, I'll be bouncing down the street on my rear end. So would of Ilya Kovalchuk.

As for those that say he only went home because of the contract....Well yeah...I wouldn't of quit my job to be closer to the kids and family unless I knew I could provide for that wife and kids while at home.