Lack of Leadership

[GhostofPotvin29]

I think that a lot of people are confusing the routine gesture, which is meaningless and not a big deal, with the message sent by removing it  - which is absolutely fair to equate with a metaphorical middle finger to the fanbase, 99.9999% of which are not throwing jerseys on the ice and tweeting Reimer's wife.

Or a lot of people did not care or know that they saluted the fans after home wins and don't care that they didn't salute the fans after a home win. 

I've never been to a home win at the ACC but let me act upset about something that has literally no impact on my enjoyment of the game because the media tells me I should be insulted by it.

 

[Kin]

I said it was ridiculous for someone to be deeply offended by it, then I said I would understand if someone was, unlike me, bothered by it. Those are in no way the same things.

I think that a lot of people are confusing the routine gesture, which is meaningless and not a big deal, with the message sent by removing it  - which is absolutely fair to equate with a metaphorical middle finger to the fanbase, 99.9999% of which are not throwing jerseys on the ice and tweeting Reimer's wife.

Exactly. It's why in the GDT people were pulling their hamstrings trying to stretch into maybe the Leafs were doing it to try and shake things up after the losses or, in what was my personal favourite, that deep down what really bothered the players about the salute was the artifice of it all.

In response to the booing, in response to the handful of jerseys being tossed and in response to, I guess, something on twitter(newsflash: people are jerks on a site where they aggregate crazy) the team might have decided to abandon a meaningless gesture of appreciation to the fans as payback. To the fans. Most of whom wouldn't notice or care and all of whom spend a ton of money on their seats. That's what the team actually took the time to decide what to do. 

But you know who's ridiculous? The media.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I think that a lot of people are confusing the routine gesture, which is meaningless and not a big deal, with the message sent by removing it  - which is absolutely fair to equate with a metaphorical middle finger to the fanbase, 99.9999% of which are not throwing jerseys on the ice and tweeting Reimer's wife.

Also, so it's okay to say people who throw jerseys on the ice/tweet Reimer's wife aren't representing the whole fanbase, but if the player's don't do a salute, which is ONLY to whoever is left inside the ACC and rarely (if ever?) broadcast on TV, then that is to the ENTIRE fanbase?

So on the one hand the fans acting that way in no way represent the entire fanbase, but on the other hand not saluting whoever is left in the ACC after a win is totally insulting the entire fanbase.  Got it.

 

[2badknees]

But you know who's ridiculous? The media.

Absolutely they are. And despite all the complaints about "all the muck that's fit to rake" media intrusion, the Leaf players decide that dangling raw meat in front of them would be a smart decision.

 

[Kin]

So now the argument is that whatever was intended by not doing the salute, if it were a conscious choice, it was intended strictly and solely for the fans who attended the game against the Lightning? Who didn't throw jerseys or boo?

 

[Kin]

Absolutely they are. And despite all the complaints about "all the muck that's fit to rake" media intrusion, the Leaf players decide that dangling raw meat in front of them would be a smart decision.

Well, the inherent sensationalism of the hockey media in this town is a fair target I suppose and I would have no time for any writer who did want to make the case that this was a big deal or that fans should really take it to heart but I think there's something to be said for a reporter noticing the change and asking about it. Especially if the answer really is "We decided we'd do this because the fans weren't being sufficiently respectful".

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Absolutely they are. And despite all the complaints about "all the muck that's fit to rake" media intrusion, the Leaf players decide that dangling raw meat in front of them would be a smart decision.

Just like celebrities when they know that paparazzi want intimate photos of them and they still do things stupid like get married!  Despite all the complains about media intrusion into their lives they still decide that dangling raw meat in front of them would be a smart decision.

 

[Courtnall]

Absolutely they are. And despite all the complaints about "all the muck that's fit to rake" media intrusion, the Leaf players decide that dangling raw meat in front of them would be a smart decision.

Just like celebrities when they know that paparazzi want intimate photos of them and they still do things stupid like get married!  Despite all the complains about media intrusion into their lives they still decide that dangling raw meat in front of them would be a smart decision.

Yes, those are exactly the same things.

 

[L K]

Also: if it means they play better or, gasp, win consistently then the players can individually give every fan the finger after a win for all I care. I can't believe this is actually a thing.

But how in the world would it mean that? Why would this help them play better or win consistently? This won't in any way affect their ability on the ice so thinking of this issue in those terms is just as ridiculous as someone being deeply offended by it.

I don't think that is necessarily true.  If the team is taking a "us against the world" mentality right now, that could be a motivating factor to play harder.  The lack of a salute after the game might not be the cause of their improved play, but it might be a symptom of it.  I'd still call it a weak argument but I don't think it is something that has to be entirely dismissed.

 

[Kin]

I don't think that is necessarily true.  If the team is taking a "us against the world" mentality right now, that could be a motivating factor to play harder.  The lack of a salute after the game might not be the cause of their improved play, but it might be a symptom of it.  I'd still call it a weak argument but I don't think it is something that has to be entirely dismissed.

It's not so much that I'd say it would be a weak argument but more that it seems like it's primarily an argument for the efficacy of disgruntled fans throwing their jerseys on the ice.

 

[brothert]

I think this has been a low point of my leaf fandom. I think the chemistry of the team has been off since Wilson showed. I don't care about a salute or no salute in the sense that they disssed me. However if it is indeed a snub and it appears to be, its a weak one.  The situation reminds me of a similar situation years ago. Phil esposito's speech midway through the 1972 series with the russians would have been the proper way to handle the current situation. If you're pissed at the poor support then speak up. Demand better support.  Don't act like a bunch of huffy high school girls shaming one of their own. 

 

[L K]

I don't think that is necessarily true.  If the team is taking a "us against the world" mentality right now, that could be a motivating factor to play harder.  The lack of a salute after the game might not be the cause of their improved play, but it might be a symptom of it.  I'd still call it a weak argument but I don't think it is something that has to be entirely dismissed.

It's not so much that I'd say it would be a weak argument but more that it seems like it's primarily an argument for the efficacy of disgruntled fans throwing their jerseys on the ice.

I don't think it's just the jersey/booing stuff though.  I could see it being the media going after the team with a certain amount of zeal.  I mean I'm pretty sure that if the Leafs do fire Carlyle that the media is going to take a celebratory congratulations as if they were the ones behind the move. 

I agree that the jersey stuff is pretty insignificant.

 

[azzurri63]

When we got Dion I liked the trade strictly for the fact that we didn't give up anything. What I didn't like was all the hype and instant captaincy awarded to him. I blame Burke for that and I think that it was his way to make a big splash. I live out in BC and being near Alberta I hear a lot about the Flames and back when Dion was there I had heard word about his ego and how he wasn't well liked by fellow teammates. Also have friends who are in the Sicamous area Franson's hometown where he visits in the summer and for what it's worth Franson blurted how Dion is not well liked now. We can believe what we want but I can see it. He just strikes me as a conceded a$$. Nonis should have never resigned him that along with constantly being voted by the players in the league as a top overrated player should have been enough to either trade him last year or let him walk. I think the team would be better without him. Personally unless we eat some of his salary no one is going take him. I hope I'm wrong but I don't see him going anywhere.

 

[Andy007]

Yea, nothing says something about someone's character like "hearing word", hearing "through friends" or "just seeing it", especially when talking about a complete stranger.

 

[bustaheims]

Yea, nothing says something about someone's character like "hearing word", hearing "through friends" or "just seeing it", especially when talking about a complete stranger.

They're my favourite. Making character judgements about someone you've never had any personal interactions with (or, even really witnessed any outside of a professional context), and 3rd hand anecdotes without any semblance of context or tone. Totally convincing.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Absolutely they are. And despite all the complaints about "all the muck that's fit to rake" media intrusion, the Leaf players decide that dangling raw meat in front of them would be a smart decision.

Just like celebrities when they know that paparazzi want intimate photos of them and they still do things stupid like get married!  Despite all the complains about media intrusion into their lives they still decide that dangling raw meat in front of them would be a smart decision.

In show business, the golden rule is usually "bad publicity is better than no publicity". 

 

[Kin]

I don't think it's just the jersey/booing stuff though.  I could see it being the media going after the team with a certain amount of zeal.  I mean I'm pretty sure that if the Leafs do fire Carlyle that the media is going to take a celebratory congratulations as if they were the ones behind the move. 

I agree that the jersey stuff is pretty insignificant.

But if it's "the media" that they're uniting against then what difference does the salute make to the players one way or the other? That doesn't say anything to the Media. Heck, if the Leafs as a team took a stand and all collectively pulled a Phil Kessel in the dressing room I'd think it was fantastic. Boycott the media? I'm all for it. That's not what this is and it's not what they did. It's like what JohnK said above. Give someone legitimate hell. Make a strong statement, even to the fans. All this statement says is that they're a bunch of pissy whiners.

At the very least that might lead to an honest discussion as opposed to the media acting like this was the greatest crime ever committed and the usual suspects defending everything that certain players do by twisting themselves into knots trying to explain how this was something, anything, other than what it obviously was.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

While there's no shortage of stupid things about the non-salute, whether about the non-act itself or about the reaction to it, I think it only gets stupider after their next home win.  If they salute, then it gets taken in the media as an acknowledgement of wrongdoing and a beg for forgiveness.  And if they don't salute, the team is doubling down on their arrogance and disrespect for the fans.  Surely they have a marketing team trying to dream up a third option for the players, besides losing every home game going forward.

 

[azzurri63]

Yea, nothing says something about someone's character like "hearing word", hearing "through friends" or "just seeing it", especially when talking about a complete stranger.

They're my favourite. Making character judgements about someone you've never had any personal interactions with (or, even really witnessed any outside of a professional context), and 3rd hand anecdotes without any semblance of context or tone. Totally convincing.

Like I said u can believe what you want. I grew up in the Shuswap area and have friends who visit the Sicamous area for hockey schools etc and my best man is friends with Shea Webers Dad and this is what we hear.

 

[Tigger]

'We're going back to what worked before... oh never mind...'

If 'us against the world' helps to increase the overall level of effort, ok, with the talent they have they sure could use it. Hey, if they're 'successful' with it the media can still work it to death no matter.