Leafs Acquired Jonathan Bernier
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louisstamos
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AvroArrow said:Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:RedLeaf said:Zee said:
How come I see Reimer in Flyers uniform next season??
You just might. Maybe for their first plus another asset?
They can have him for Couturier.
They're apparently dangling Matt Read. Suitable replacement for Frattin?
(that being said, even with Bernier, I prefer Reimer stays. I, like Brian Burke before me, believe he's the real deal. He just needs to stay healthy).
A couple thoughts I'm having:
1. Reimer might fit well in Edmonton. Think of the possibilities.
2. Reimer was Burke's guy (so to speak) and Bernier is DN's guy. Does anyone really think Bernier was brought here to play backup?
3. It will be interesting to see what Bernier's new contract looks like. Once he is making a bunch more than Reimer we can ask again - does anyone think that Bernier is going to be the backup?
1. Reimer might fit well in Edmonton. Think of the possibilities.
2. Reimer was Burke's guy (so to speak) and Bernier is DN's guy. Does anyone really think Bernier was brought here to play backup?
3. It will be interesting to see what Bernier's new contract looks like. Once he is making a bunch more than Reimer we can ask again - does anyone think that Bernier is going to be the backup?
bustaheims
Active member
Michael said:
He also wasn't brought in to be handed the starting job without earning it. Also, just because Nonis brought in Bernier does not mean Bernier is "his guy" and Reimer isn't. It doesn't work the same way with players as it does coaches. Nonis's "guy" is whoever helps the team win more games.
BlueWhiteBlood
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bustaheims said:
Exactly, why are a lot of people assuming Reimer is leaving in trade all of a sudden? This is to have two very good goalies and win games.
If Bernier is the number one it means he will have earned it, but if Reimer keeps it, it's because he also earned it and proved it again.
Highlander
Active member
Bernier will start..no question
x.jr.benchwarmer
New member
Frattin was a fine player, when healthy, IMHO, as he was one of the few forwards who were able to beat guys one-on-one, and who drove to the net with the puck. But his numbers are average and, typically, a fine goaltender is much much more important to a team's ability to win games than a fine young forward.
In looking at the trade, Scrivens was a replaceable asset, and may very well have cleared waivers. He wasn't in RC's plans to get any legitimate ice-time.
A second-round pick rarely results in a game-changing, or even 2nd line player.
I think that Bernier is terrific in potentially upgrading the Leafs goaltending. And I think that the GM braintrust have concluded that if they can upgrade any position, especially goaltending, that they should do so, irrespective of the player's performances.
I believe that Reimer was absolutely terrific in Games 5 and 6 in the playoffs, and backstopped them to the wins. But he was more than just ordinary in the losses. The first OT goal scored on him was on the short side. His lack of any meaningful saves in the third period in Game 7 was, as we all know, tragic. (And of course it was a total team melt-down in the latter half of the third period in Game 7, but Reimer still didn`t come through when it was necessary for him to do so). In fact, looking at Reimer`s stats in the playoffs, he was 15th in GAA (2.87), and 10th in save percentage (9.23). But the games in which Boston won, he was extremely mediocre, if not substandard. In those 4 games, his save percentage was .886, and his GAA was 4.50.
Of course, statistics may be used in any context to justify any argument. I believe that Reimer`s performance in the playoffs may very well have justified the Leafs looking for an upgrade. And if looking at Reimer`s style, he clearly can`t handle the puck outside the crease, and has typically given up too many big rebounds, and his glove hand has not been stellar.
In conclusion, if Reimer does keep the starting job, it will be presumably based on merit over the preseason, and the start of the year. And if Bernier is the Number 1, then he has beaten out a pretty decent (but not great) young goaltender. And that can only benefit the Leafs in either scenario, IMHO.
(And finally we will have a patient GM who isn`t so keen to step up to a mike like Burke and declare the starting goaltender in the summer, without even seeing who is playing well going into the season).
In looking at the trade, Scrivens was a replaceable asset, and may very well have cleared waivers. He wasn't in RC's plans to get any legitimate ice-time.
A second-round pick rarely results in a game-changing, or even 2nd line player.
I think that Bernier is terrific in potentially upgrading the Leafs goaltending. And I think that the GM braintrust have concluded that if they can upgrade any position, especially goaltending, that they should do so, irrespective of the player's performances.
I believe that Reimer was absolutely terrific in Games 5 and 6 in the playoffs, and backstopped them to the wins. But he was more than just ordinary in the losses. The first OT goal scored on him was on the short side. His lack of any meaningful saves in the third period in Game 7 was, as we all know, tragic. (And of course it was a total team melt-down in the latter half of the third period in Game 7, but Reimer still didn`t come through when it was necessary for him to do so). In fact, looking at Reimer`s stats in the playoffs, he was 15th in GAA (2.87), and 10th in save percentage (9.23). But the games in which Boston won, he was extremely mediocre, if not substandard. In those 4 games, his save percentage was .886, and his GAA was 4.50.
Of course, statistics may be used in any context to justify any argument. I believe that Reimer`s performance in the playoffs may very well have justified the Leafs looking for an upgrade. And if looking at Reimer`s style, he clearly can`t handle the puck outside the crease, and has typically given up too many big rebounds, and his glove hand has not been stellar.
In conclusion, if Reimer does keep the starting job, it will be presumably based on merit over the preseason, and the start of the year. And if Bernier is the Number 1, then he has beaten out a pretty decent (but not great) young goaltender. And that can only benefit the Leafs in either scenario, IMHO.
(And finally we will have a patient GM who isn`t so keen to step up to a mike like Burke and declare the starting goaltender in the summer, without even seeing who is playing well going into the season).
Capital Leaf
New member
It would have been a fair only if Frattin wasn't included....Frattin makes this lopsided in favor of LA!
They must be laughing
They must be laughing
bustaheims
Active member
Capital Leaf said:
In the context of what other highly touted young goalies have gone for in the last 18 months, you couldn't be more wrong. The Leafs gave up similar value to what Tampa Bay did for a less experienced Lindback, marginally more than what Columbus gave up for Bobrovsky and less than what Colorado gave up for Varlamov.
bustaheims
Active member
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
There's an equal tendency for people to over-rate guys who show any promise. While Frattin was likely a significant piece for LA, if we're really being honest about him, he's a 3rd liner who can fill in for short stints on the 2nd in case of injury, etc. He's a nice, younger player, but he's not exactly an unsurmountable loss or a piece that makes the deal lopsided in any fashion. Whether or not this was a good deal remains to be seen and, right now, is largely a matter of opinion, but, as things stand right now in terms of the market value of the pieces involved, I won't ever be convinced that this was not a fair deal.
ZBBM
Active member
bustaheims said:
Well, that's true, and may be happening with Bernier.
I posted awhile back that RC didn't really use Frattin to best advantage. Granted, he slumped after coming back from the injury, so it's hard to blame Carlyle. I'm just saying that if he gets more icetime in LA he's got an intriguing combo of skills that could blossom. Frattin strikes me as the kind of player who could break out and emerge as a really good one. That's the gamble LA is taking, or else they could have gone with Read (according to reports).
Kin
New member
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
Maybe, but as people have mentioned the fact that LA could address their new back up vacancy and add Frattin while actually saving cap space seems to have been a pretty big reason why they favoured making the deal with Toronto as opposed to Philly. So it's not so much a statement that they prefer Frattin to Read.