Leafs @ Canucks - Apr. 18th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590

[Guilt Trip]

I think it was a flukey win. I mean, how many crossbars, posts, bad bounces did the Leafs have? Credit Holtby for keeping them in it.

Yup. That's the way it goes. That's ok though, fans will overreact as usual

I can see why people are losing their minds though, this loss did drop us all the way down to 1st place in the North division.

No kidding. I'm glad the players don't react the way fans do..funny there were a lot of people who thought this would be a cake walk..I figured it would be tough because of Holtby and it was. We lost one point and gained one more on the Jets  Oh well go get them Tuesday.

 

[dekedastardly]

I blame Andersen for Campbell's bad play. After he got the 11 wins Andersen sent him a congratulatory post on Twitter or Instagram or something. Freddie cursed him since then. Andersen is the worst.

Pretty much. He's locker room cancer even when he's watching from home

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I think it was a flukey win. I mean, how many crossbars, posts, bad bounces did the Leafs have? Credit Holtby for keeping them in it.

Yup. That's the way it goes. That's ok though, fans will overreact as usual

I can see why people are losing their minds though, this loss did drop us all the way down to 1st place in the North division.

Wow

I know right.

 

[wnc096]

Really. Been a diehard since the early 70's late 60's. You don't know me buddy it's just the facts. All some do on here is look at stats and think everything is rosy. Little do you guys know. Some should apply for a position with Leafs organization because you'd fit right in. Team has some flaws that seem to get neglected and until then is going nowhere. There's talent which you need, character and grit. I'll give them the first that's it.

Yeah but when they lose you jump all over them...and when they win you?re it?s always ?Yeah sure they won BUT....(laundry list of things you didn?t like)?

I get it though...I guess if you been a fan for that long you have the right to be jaded. 

 

[azzurri63]

I think all you need to do is look at Zee?s chunk thread .

This team plays great for a good span, looks like crap for an equally long span , back and forth ...rinse and repeat . It?s really the playoffs that will prove what this team is.... a great team that sits atop the division or the horrible team we?ve seen over the last 4 games .

EDIT: to me it?s the effort or lack of effort that we?re seeing from this team ...when they decide to take a break it shows on the ice

So why is that allowed to happen? Game here game there sure they are after all human. But when they seem to lack putting in an effort which I'm not going to say was the cause tonight but when they do or certain individuals do why isn't anyone punished for that. Not this team. Regardless of how you're playing, how the PP is doing etc etc it's always status quo. Keefe needs to be called out on this. I don't care if you're making 10 million a year if you're sucking balls then maybe you need a night off. PP isn't clicking maybe throw out others. Sure the end result is you want to win and the best players need to play but if you're not cutting it sorry.

You want my take on this team. Some aren't going to agree and I've said it before. Nylander holding out was the start got paid even after holding out and the the big 2 signed for what I said was going to hurt this team from filling out the roster properly. Not saying that model hasn't worked a la Blackhawks and Penguins teams but my opinion not the best way to go. I haven't commented on Thornton, Simmonds etc but I will now. What did you all think these guys were going to bring other than leadership and maybe a little grit from Wayne. The 2 are at the end of their careers and for the most part are done. Now a lot are complaining about them. Is what it is Dubas handcuffed himself and had to fill in the holes with castoffs from other clubs or signings from overseas. Matthews is the leader on this team. Both him and Marner in my opinion are overpaid not in the sense that they aren't great players but this early in their career I thought they were slightly overpaid. You can't argue with their numbers so it is what it is but I seriously thought maybe 8.5 and 9.5 was suffice. With that they could have used those savings to maybe help land a top 4 defensemen. Reilly is not your guy and the team is in trouble if he is your #1. That has not been addressed. I loved the Tavares signing as other than money didn't cost us anything but I think that money would have been better spent or held on to try and obtain a D man that can play 25 minutes a night and can play both ends of the ice and quarterback your PP.

Sure we can wait and see what happens in the playoffs. What is it going to take to please most on here getting by the first round? Winning 2 rounds? Talent wise this team is better than the rest in the division but I don't think they are head and shoulders above everyone else as it seems like other years something is lacking. If we don't do well in the playoffs Dubas, Shanny need to go bring someone else in and change the character of this team.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Guilt Trip]

https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/1383968065801519108

 

[Kin]

I think something that's really unfortunate is that because some posters criticisms are so misguided and repetitive and quite frankly wrongheaded a lot of the post-game discussion now just revolves around that as opposed to more substantive discussions.

Contrary to some things that have been said I have lots of concerns with the Leafs. I don't think they match up well with the Washingtons, Tampas or Floridas. But it has nothing to do with rehashed yammering about grit or toughness that would have embarrassed Don Cherry as being simple minded but rather that I think the Leafs are fairly deficient in some key areas and it will render their chances in the playoffs a crapshoot.

I mean, to start with, I don't have faith in their goaltending. I enjoyed Campbell's run as much as anyone but we can already see him coming down to Earth and behind him is, well, other issues. Goaltending is a big deal. It's also way more volatile than it was back in my early days as a hockey fan where certain guys would just have great seasons year after year. So outside of a few lucky clubs with elite goaltenders all teams are in more or less the same situation there.

What that means is that the goaltending issue is a complex one. There is no easy fix. It can't be solved by trading one of the more offensively gifted players on the team for someone who looks like they're trying harder. Accordingly, that makes it out of the reach for some of the team's more vocal critics.

I suspect my view of the team is pretty common so it's a little frustrating to see people try to paint this as people who are positive about the team vs. those who are negative about it. None of us, I'm fairly certain, think the team is a Tampa-like juggernaut with no real weaknesses, the issue is what those issues are, how they can be realistically addressed and whether or not the discussion here should be dominated by the same old rote, useless complaints made loudly and obnoxiously game after game after game.

 

[azzurri63]

Really. Been a diehard since the early 70's late 60's. You don't know me buddy it's just the facts. All some do on here is look at stats and think everything is rosy. Little do you guys know. Some should apply for a position with Leafs organization because you'd fit right in. Team has some flaws that seem to get neglected and until then is going nowhere. There's talent which you need, character and grit. I'll give them the first that's it.

Yeah but when they lose you jump all over them...and when they win you?re it?s always ?Yeah sure they won BUT....(laundry list of things you didn?t like)?

I get it though...I guess if you been a fan for that long you have the right to be jaded.

I call it like it is. Like I mentioned the other day. I don't just look at wins I look at how you're playing and if it's deserving. No different in Freddies earlier years when we were getting outshot and facing 40 shots a night but still winning. To me that's not a sign of a great team. Leafs are better now and I praise them when they do play well. Maybe I'm just too hard on them and expect it every night.

Whats frustrating with this team and I'll say it it's not a lot is the same stuff we see happening that's costing us games and Im not going to go into detail and that's on the coaches to. Something aint working change it and hopefully the results are better. Babcock used to irritate me with his favouritism and dumb decisions. Keefe is starting to do the same.

 

[Kin]

You want my take on this team.

No.

 

[azzurri63]

You want my take on this team.

No.

Have a good night Nik missed you.

 

[Bill_Berg]

I think something that's really unfortunate is that because some posters criticisms are so misguided and repetitive and quite frankly wrongheaded a lot of the post-game discussion now just revolves around that as opposed to more substantive discussions.

Contrary to some things that have been said I have lots of concerns with the Leafs. I don't think they match up well with the Washingtons, Tampas or Floridas. But it has nothing to do with rehashed yammering about grit or toughness that would have embarrassed Don Cherry as being simple minded but rather that I think the Leafs are fairly deficient in some key areas and it will render their chances in the playoffs a crapshoot.

I mean, to start with, I don't have faith in their goaltending. I enjoyed Campbell's run as much as anyone but we can already see him coming down to Earth and behind him is, well, other issues. Goaltending is a big deal. It's also way more volatile than it was back in my early days as a hockey fan where certain guys would just have great seasons year after year. So outside of a few lucky clubs with elite goaltenders all teams are in more or less the same situation there.

What that means is that the goaltending issue is a complex one. There is no easy fix. It can't be solved by trading one of the more offensively gifted players on the team for someone who looks like they're trying harder. Accordingly, that makes it out of the reach for some of the team's more vocal critics.

I suspect my view of the team is pretty common so it's a little frustrating to see people try to paint this as people who are positive about the team vs. those who are negative about it. None of us, I'm fairly certain, think the team is a Tampa-like juggernaut with no real weaknesses, the issue is what those issues are, how they can be realistically addressed and whether or not the discussion here should be dominated by the same old rote, useless complaints made loudly and obnoxiously game after game after game.

Ya the goaltending has me worried. The only new takeaway I have from this game is another worry: Hyman.

 

[Bullfrog]

I call it like it is. Like I mentioned the other day. I don't just look at wins I look at how you're playing and if it's deserving. No different in Freddies earlier years when we were getting outshot and facing 40 shots a night but still winning. To me that's not a sign of a great team. Leafs are better now and I praise them when they do play well. Maybe I'm just too hard on them and expect it every night.
...

No. You call as you see it. And how you see it is out-dated.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Rittich may turn out to be Dubas' best move at the deadline.

 

[azzurri63]

I call it like it is. Like I mentioned the other day. I don't just look at wins I look at how you're playing and if it's deserving. No different in Freddies earlier years when we were getting outshot and facing 40 shots a night but still winning. To me that's not a sign of a great team. Leafs are better now and I praise them when they do play well. Maybe I'm just too hard on them and expect it every night.
...

No. You call as you see it. And how you see it is out-dated.

Outdated ok my friend. Why because I?d like a balanced team one that in the end come playoff time is what you need. If you think talent and talent alone wins you a cup good luck with that.

 

[ZBBM]

I mean, to start with, I don't have faith in their goaltending. I enjoyed Campbell's run as much as anyone but we can already see him coming down to Earth and behind him is, well, other issues. Goaltending is a big deal. It's also way more volatile than it was back in my early days as a hockey fan where certain guys would just have great seasons year after year. So outside of a few lucky clubs with elite goaltenders all teams are in more or less the same situation there.

What that means is that the goaltending issue is a complex one. There is no easy fix. It can't be solved by trading one of the more offensively gifted players on the team for someone who looks like they're trying harder. Accordingly, that makes it out of the reach for some of the team's more vocal critics.

I came back in to post something very like this but Nik you've said it perfectly.  The goaltending is suspect, no matter whether it's 31 or 36 (and probably 33).  I feel that Andersen's experience as a starter probably gives the team the best shot but he hasn't gotten it done in the playoffs and I can see them getting bounced again in R1 if he (or Campbell, or Rittich) has a leaky series.

The other concern I have is their ability to take over games and simply not let the opponents in it.  I do think that an indicator of playoff success is not just how many wins you have, but how many times you dominate other teams.  I suppose somebody has run the stats on whether playoff success is correlated with how many times a team wins by, say, 3 or more goals during the regular season, or how many times they win by 2 or more and hold the opponent to only X SOG or high-danger chances or what have you.  Maybe I'm totally wrong here, but my intuition is that there is a correlation.

In any case a recurring MO with the Leafs is not winning games they are "supposed" to win.  They don't seem to have what it takes to take a weakened or lesser opponent and just put them out of the game early.

 

[Bullfrog]

I call it like it is. Like I mentioned the other day. I don't just look at wins I look at how you're playing and if it's deserving. No different in Freddies earlier years when we were getting outshot and facing 40 shots a night but still winning. To me that's not a sign of a great team. Leafs are better now and I praise them when they do play well. Maybe I'm just too hard on them and expect it every night.
...

No. You call as you see it. And how you see it is out-dated.

Outdated ok my friend. Why because I?d like a balanced team one that in the end come playoff time is what you need. If you think talent and talent alone wins you a cup good luck with that.

Where did I say that talent alone wins a cup?

Your views on the role of hitting and fighting and retribution are outdated. This isn't my view because of some notion that I don't like physical play, it's because the speed of the game and overall skill has increased significantly.

 

[Deebo]

We stink dudes

This team is laughable.

All you positive guys on here who never have anything bad to say about this team. Let's have it. I'm sure we'll hear it. Leafs had some good chances, we outshot them, deserved better blah blah blah blah. Oh let's not forget but we are in 1st place.  Bottom line is this team needs an overhaul. Get some players on here who actually give a rats ass because every year it's the same thing. Coaching needs to be called out to.

Maybe if you actually read what people have to say, you would see that there is plenty of cristicism of the team. Just because people don't angrily repeat themselves after every game win or lose, doesn't meant there isn't criticism and just because people don't think the answer to everything just hitting someone or trying harder, doesn't mean they think everything is great.

There is something inbetween the suckiest sucks that every sucked and everything is great. That's where most of us are.

 

[azzurri63]

I call it like it is. Like I mentioned the other day. I don't just look at wins I look at how you're playing and if it's deserving. No different in Freddies earlier years when we were getting outshot and facing 40 shots a night but still winning. To me that's not a sign of a great team. Leafs are better now and I praise them when they do play well. Maybe I'm just too hard on them and expect it every night.
...

No. You call as you see it. And how you see it is out-dated.

Outdated ok my friend. Why because I?d like a balanced team one that in the end come playoff time is what you need. If you think talent and talent alone wins you a cup good luck with that.

Where did I say that talent alone wins a cup?

Your views on the role of hitting and fighting and retribution are outdated. This isn't my view because of some notion that I don't like physical play, it's because the speed of the game and overall skill has increased significantly.

I think some of you misinterpret my views of the above. I understand the game has changed I?m fine with that. My point is that it?s still part of the game it hasn?t gone away completely. Do I say we need a Colton Orr on the ice every 4 th shift smashing someone?s face. No. Hitting last I looked hasn?t been taken away either. The team is soft no doubt about it. I?ve said it numerous times there are times we can take the body and when I say that I don?t mean putting someone through the boards. It?s taking the body to stop an opponent, end the play, to cause losing puck possession etc. A lot of this team don?t do that and what it leads to is extended plays and at times goals in our net. The game has gotten faster for sure but the elements of the games you mentioned have not been totally eliminated.

We have a lot of skill on this team and I?m happy for it. Skill alone does not win cups. You need that balance and that?s all I?m saying.

 

[Kin]

We have a lot of skill on this team and I?m happy for it. Skill alone does not win cups. You need that balance and that?s all I?m saying.

So the team added Bogosian and Brodie and Simmonds and now Hutton and Foligno and they already had Hyman and Muzzin and on and on. The team is and always has been more than just their scorers. Your criticisms of the team has never actually reflected the people they put on the ice and you just whine endlessly about the fact that some of the skilled players on the team aren't as tough as you'd like them to be. It's boring and repetitive on top of not being even vaguely insightful or meaningful analysis. You just vomit out the same word garbage regardless of the situation.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Toronto deserved a better fate last night. I wouldn't call it their best effort of the season, but it also wasn't horrible.

I found them a little too pretty in the first period. I do believe they bought into the notion that they were going to walk all over Vancouver because of Covid. The last thing you want is to take the night off against a team that has something to play for. That being said, I don't think the Leafs necessarily did. They outshot Vancouver by quite a large margin. Holtby was fantastic and his posts and cross bars were even better. Also, there's no way in he!! that the puck was not in the net with 19 seconds left. I get why they didn't overturn the call on the ice, but the ref made no effort to get in where Marner was clearly pointing at the puck.

On the Campbell front, he certainly is returning to his actual level of play, though I don't think he was playing lights out when he was winning everything. The goal in OT cannot go in. I apologize, but if Andersen is healthy, Andersen goes in. He is the better goalie.