Leafs hire Kyle Dubas as assistant GM, Loiselle and Poulin Dismissed

[Bullfrog]

Dubas is being brought in as an assistant. JFJ was brought as the GM. Significant difference there.

 

[pmrules]

Dubas is being brought in as an assistant. JFJ was brought as the GM. Significant difference there.

Good...i'm glad that someone else brought that up...where was Nonis during the announcement?  The presser I saw was just Shanny and the new guy.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Good...i'm glad that someone else brought that up...where was Nonis during the announcement?  The presser I saw was just Shanny and the new guy.

It was said he couldn't be there because of a family commitment. Basically I wouldn't read anything into him not being there.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

weird timing - why not do this before the draft and before UFA day.

Also - how does this guy make our team better?  Our players are still our players and our coach is still our coach...and newsflash...the players and the coach are still not that good.

Is something not worth doing if it doesn't instantly improve the team?  This is obviously a move done for the future of the franchise.

You mean like JFJ?

or do you mean like Bryan Burke?

No idea what this means.

It means we have been down this road of "new blood" and "change" before...and it has gotten us nowhere.

There is absolutely nothing to get excited about here as the core players from the last 3 years are still the core players we are stuck with for the forseeable future.

So why make any changes ever then is what you're saying?

No...not at all.  I'm all about getting better.  If he gets us better players then the collective defensive garbage we currently have, then i'm aboard...until then...I'm going to hold off on doing my dance of joy.

It's basically a show me what you got in ya...and then I'll make a judgement...because we have been through the new blood of JFJ and the old blood of Burke already.

You can say that about any hiring ever.  People are happy because the hiring seems to signal a different approach and willingness to break with tradition somewhat and break with the 'old boys club' mentality as well.  I think you can be happy with the move while also waiting to see how it eventually pans out.  Don't think it is mutually exclusive.

 

[pmrules]

Good...i'm glad that someone else brought that up...where was Nonis during the announcement?  The presser I saw was just Shanny and the new guy.

It was said he couldn't be there because of a family commitment. Basically I wouldn't read anything into him not being there.

The boss was not there to fire his two right hand men - it couldn't wait until he returned?  It is most likely nothing...but it may be something.

 

[bustaheims]

The boss was not there to fire his two right hand men - it couldn't wait until he returned?  It is most likely nothing...but it may be something.

Shanahan is their boss, not Nonis.

 

[MetalRaven]

I don't understand this approach.  If you know this is what you were going to do next summer, why wait?  Just to see if Dubas is a flash in the pan?  To make really really sure that you don't think Loiselle and Poulin can do the job that you want them too?

I think it's more of a professional courtesy. Shanny didn't want to come in with no experience running an NHL team and completely clean house right away. I think he really wanted to give guys like Loiselle and Poulin an opportunity to change his mind, but, obviously, he didn't want to lose out on Dubas, either.

Why are those the only paths though? Will Dubas be doing things that directly infringed on what Loiselle and Poulin did? Because if not there's no reason you couldn't keep all of them.

It's kind of beyond weird to make front office changes in the off-season after the free agency period and the draft. Is Shanahan saying that the team did badly in those stretches? Is that the summer long test Loiselle and Poulin failed? It seems to me that it's pretty important to have the right guys in place for those things.

Wasn't Loiselle brought in as a 'cap specialist'? If Dubas is a good numbers guy, maybe that'll be one of his assistant GM duties?

 

[Arn]

Wasn't Loiselle brought in as a 'cap specialist'? If Dubas is a good numbers guy, maybe that'll be one of his assistant GM duties?

I think I saw it quoted elsewhere earlier that they would be seeking a new cap specialist.

 

[lamajama]

Wasn't Loiselle brought in as a 'cap specialist'? If Dubas is a good numbers guy, maybe that'll be one of his assistant GM duties?

I think I saw it quoted elsewhere earlier that they would be seeking a new cap specialist.

Well that new guy will have a pretty low bar to exceed.

 

[L K]

Colour me happy.  Loiselle was one of the big problems in the front office.  He's a numbers guy who has no idea how to manage the cap.  Beyond that I'm impressed with the move to actually consider numbers.  One of the Dubas quotes was quite good in that he acknowledged that analytics aren't quite there just yet but they are still an important tool to use when making evaluations.  It isn't forward thinking, but it puts the Leafs approach more in line with the rest of the league and that is encouraging.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

He constantly talks about coach buy in from Keefe in the Soo, good luck with that here buddy.

 

[Kin]

Colour me happy.  Loiselle was one of the big problems in the front office.  He's a numbers guy who has no idea how to manage the cap.

How do you figure that? In theory any "numbers guy" is primarily going to be concerned with giving the GM accurate information about the team's cap situation. Any actual decisions affecting the cap will be made by Nonis, won't they?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Colour me happy.  Loiselle was one of the big problems in the front office.  He's a numbers guy who has no idea how to manage the cap.  Beyond that I'm impressed with the move to actually consider numbers.  One of the Dubas quotes was quite good in that he acknowledged that analytics aren't quite there just yet but they are still an important tool to use when making evaluations.  It isn't forward thinking, but it puts the Leafs approach more in line with the rest of the league and that is encouraging.

Yep it's encouraging since Nonis had previously stated that they didn't have any analytics that they felt helped them so hopefully this is a sign of actively encouraging their use as an aid in decision-making.

 

[2badknees]

I think it was disrespectful and unnecessary to dismiss loiselle and poulin this late in the offseason. Both are good team guys that deserved the opportunity to be considered during the management offseason shakeups around the league last month.

I don't know anything about this Dubas guy, but it seems obvious that Shanahan has created an untenable dynamic between Nonis, Carlyle, Dubas, and the new assistant coaches. Perhaps some will see this as a positive, but I sure don't.

It looks to me more along the lines of a president of hockey operations that has no experience in the job. But I do kind of like the Booth signing, so whatever.

 

[Peter D.]

To think this could be the beginning of a 50-year career as an NHL executive. Good on him.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I think it was disrespectful and unnecessary to dismiss loiselle and poulin this late in the offseason. Both are good team guys that deserved the opportunity to be considered during the management offseason shakeups around the league last month.

I'm fairly certain at least one of them (and maybe both) have interviewed for other vacant NHL positions while still employed by the Leafs.

 

[bustaheims]

I'm fairly certain at least one of them (and maybe both) have interviewed for other vacant NHL positions while still employed by the Leafs.

They were both certainly rumoured to have been considered for a number of positions, but, if they got to the interviews, they didn't make past the first round.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I'm fairly certain at least one of them (and maybe both) have interviewed for other vacant NHL positions while still employed by the Leafs.

They were both certainly rumoured to have been considered for a number of positions, but, if they got to the interviews, they didn't make past the first round.

Yeah that's probably what it was, but I know the Habs were granted permission to speak with Loiselle for one.

EDIT: Or spoke to him.  Something like that.  Anyways.

 

[brothert]

On the flip side, if it goes south for this guy, he's only 2 letters from a really good nickname.

 

[cw]

I think it was disrespectful and unnecessary to dismiss loiselle and poulin this late in the offseason. Both are good team guys that deserved the opportunity to be considered during the management offseason shakeups around the league last month.

I'm fairly certain at least one of them (and maybe both) have interviewed for other vacant NHL positions while still employed by the Leafs.

It was reported that the Leafs gave permission to the Habs to speak with Loiselle back when. Loiselle was also on media lists for consideration for the GM opening in Buffalo and in Washington.

Poulin likely was considered by Burke in Calgary and the media had him on a potential list for Calgary but Burke claims he only interviewed Treviling. Poulin was also rumored to be under consideration in Washington by various media.

I didn't mind either one of them. But unless you're actually working with them, it's hard to evaluate them in those positions because you don't know what their real opinions were on talent decisions (filtering out the company line they took in the media).

I expect Shanahan will hire another assistant GM before the fall.

If Nonis didn't feel like he was on thin ice before, he sure does now. I'm increasingly getting the feeling he and Carlyle are only around for stability and continuity while Shanahan reviews the whole operation. From that, more changes will come and they'll start to trickle down through the staff below management.

Poulin, with 3 years left on his contract, was interviewed on the radio this morning so it doesn't sound as if he had any idea this was coming.