Leafs @ Islanders - Feb. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590

[TML fan]

I know that. I'm just saying I think that's a pretty good package and something the Leafs should consider if it were to come up.

I'm just clarifying then because you called that a rumour when it's actually just one guys random idea. But yes that's probably something like what Kessel could get.

Well it's a good thing you clarified it! Otherwise it might have led to wild speculation and we can't have that around here! Never!

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Well it's a good thing you clarified it! Otherwise it might have led to wild speculation and we can't have that around here! Never!

... right.

 

[Kin]

Also I notice you don't deny my first sentence, which, in fact, is undeniable so that's good that you didn't even try.

It's also worth mentioning that "without the puck" doesn't exclusively refer to defensive play. Kessel is not a ton of use on the forecheck exactly whereas a guy like Getzlaf is.

 

[Chris]

Also I notice you don't deny my first sentence, which, in fact, is undeniable so that's good that you didn't even try.

It's also worth mentioning that "without the puck" doesn't exclusively refer to defensive play. Kessel is not a ton of use on the forecheck exactly whereas a guy like Getzlaf is.

When the Leafs don't have the puck and the Kessel line is on the ice, it's like they're playing a man and a half down. Both Kessel and Bozak are essentially useless once the puck goes up for grabs in a corner (and JVR hasn't been much better). I don't watch other teams closely enough to know how that compares to some of the other top lines/players, but I can't recall ever seeing another teams "top" line get hemmed in its own end shift after shift, game after game like ours does.

 

[Redleaf]

I think you can keep kessel and have a rebuild - it seems plausible to me.

I agree, but if you can get a package like the one I heard rumours about, I think you have to take it.

What was the package?

Kreider, one of Duclair or Skjei, a 1st next year and a 2nd this year. The article says that's what the Leafs asked for.

My hope is, if they do trade kessel, that they get back one very skilled hockey player, a can't miss kind of player. I'd rather they do that then trade him for a bunch of prospects and picks. I never liked the 4 quarters for a dollar deals (unless the 4 quarters are going out instead of coming back in a trade.)

Of course I'd make some exceptions. For instance, if they traded Kessel to the Avalanche for O'Reilly, I'd ask them to throw in a 1st and 2nd as well.

 

[Chris]

Kreider would be a pretty good piece, though. Only 23, big, fast, has skill and a bit of a mean streak. He'll never produce points like Kessel would, but I'd love to have him on the Leafs.

Caveat to the above, my impressions are mainly based on what I saw in the finals last year. Haven't really seen him play much this year.

 

[Kin]

My hope is, if they do trade kessel, that they get back one very skilled hockey player, a can't miss kind of player.

Seriously though, does that ever happen? If there's a young, very skilled player who can't miss odds are he's not getting dealt. Even in a case like Tyler Seguin the reason Boston was willing to trade him is because they were pretty worried that, in fact, his bad behaviour would result in him being a "miss".

 

[Redleaf]

My hope is, if they do trade kessel, that they get back one very skilled hockey player, a can't miss kind of player.

Seriously though, does that ever happen? If there's a young, very skilled player who can't miss odds are he's not getting dealt. Even in a case like Tyler Seguin the reason Boston was willing to trade him is because they were pretty worried that, in fact, his bad behaviour would result in him being a "miss".

Kessel got moved out of Boston. Not everyone thought he was a can't miss, but Burke did. thats all I meant.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Kessel's laziness without the puck diminishes his value significantly.  He is as bad a forward w/o the puck as I have ever seen. 

I think that says more about how much you watch other NHL teams than anything.  There are a bunch of elite offensive, bad defensive players league-wide.  Ever witnessed a Ryan Getzlaf backcheck?  And he's a C and an twice Olympic Gold Medallist.  Patrick Kane is bad defensively - and he's not expected to be more than that.  He's surrounded appropriately.

Since getting Gamecenter Live I've enjoyed getting to watch a pantsload more teams and I really think this idea of the elite scorer who's also defensively responsible is more or less fiction aside from a few players.  Kessel is who he is who he's always been.  Kessel will never be Jonathan Toews just like Patrick Kane won't be Jonathan Toews.  Kessel also does things that 95% of the league can't consistently do.

You're my hero.

 

[Kin]

Kessel got moved out of Boston. Not everyone thought he was a can't miss, but Burke did.

Right but Kessel didn't get moved for a "Can't miss" player in return. They got a bunch of assets that they hoped would add up to him but weren't sure things. I'm talking about a team trading an established player like the Leafs would be and getting a younger "can't miss" kind of guy in return. I just don't think that happens.

 

[Redleaf]

Kessel got moved out of Boston. Not everyone thought he was a can't miss, but Burke did.

Right but Kessel didn't get moved for a "Can't miss" player in return. They got a bunch of assets that they hoped would add up to him but weren't sure things. I'm talking about a team trading an established player like the Leafs would be and getting a younger "can't miss" kind of guy in return. I just don't think that happens.

You're probably right, but that's still my hope.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I think that sometimes we forget that these players who also happen to be multi millionaires are also just regular people. Last night when Kessel was asked about his future he mentioned that he really loves Toronto, but he will go where they want him, I believe someone posted the exact quote earlier. I really felt bad for him, it might just have been my reading of the situation, but I definitely got the sense that he would be hurt to be traded away. I get the sense that since he has essentially matured and grown up throughout his 20s in Toronto, he really does love this city, the lifestyle he is able to lead and loves playing for the leafs. When the team loses I get the sense that he is genuinely pissed off, he could of course be doing more to be an all around more well-rounded player, but I get the sense he is definitely invested and I think you do want to keep guys like that around.

Just my two cents, I could be wrong and most likely am as per the norm, but I hope that Phil sticks around to see and be part of the rebuilt and successful Toronto Maple Leafs.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I think that sometimes we forget that these players who also happen to be multi millionaires are also just regular people. Last night when Kessel was asked about his future he mentioned that he really loves Toronto, but he will go where they want him, I believe someone posted the exact quote earlier. I really felt bad for him, it might just have been my reading of the situation, but I definitely got the sense that he would be hurt to be traded away. I get the sense that since he has essentially matured and grown up throughout his 20s in Toronto, he really does love this city, the lifestyle he is able to lead and loves playing for the leafs. When the team loses I get the sense that he is genuinely pissed off, he could of course be doing more to be an all around more well-rounded player, but I get the sense he is definitely invested and I think you do want to keep guys like that around.

Just my two cents, I could be wrong and most likely am as per the norm, but I hope that Phil sticks around to see and be part of the rebuilt and successful Toronto Maple Leafs.

For a guy who is criticized for effort and fitness, it must be pretty easy to play in the NHL then - 4th in total points since 11-12 began, 5th in even-strength goals (so he's not just racking up PP production) without missing a game.  Tied with Seguin for most 5v5 points in the league since 2011-12 began.  8th in PPG over that stretch (tied with Ovechkin).

 

[cabber24]

I think that sometimes we forget that these players who also happen to be multi millionaires are also just regular people. Last night when Kessel was asked about his future he mentioned that he really loves Toronto, but he will go where they want him, I believe someone posted the exact quote earlier. I really felt bad for him, it might just have been my reading of the situation, but I definitely got the sense that he would be hurt to be traded away. I get the sense that since he has essentially matured and grown up throughout his 20s in Toronto, he really does love this city, the lifestyle he is able to lead and loves playing for the leafs. When the team loses I get the sense that he is genuinely pissed off, he could of course be doing more to be an all around more well-rounded player, but I get the sense he is definitely invested and I think you do want to keep guys like that around.

Just my two cents, I could be wrong and most likely am as per the norm, but I hope that Phil sticks around to see and be part of the rebuilt and successful Toronto Maple Leafs.

For a guy who is criticized for effort and fitness, it must be pretty easy to play in the NHL then - 4th in total points since 11-12 began, 5th in even-strength goals (so he's not just racking up PP production) without missing a game.  Tied with Seguin for most 5v5 points in the league since 2011-12 began.  8th in PPG over that stretch (tied with Ovechkin).

He sucks, he's a bumb! A Kovalchuk type, the most useless 40 goals anyone will ever score... never mind he's never scored 40.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

He sucks, he's a bumb! A Kovalchuk type, the most useless 40 goals anyone will ever score... never mind he's never scored 40.

Ilya Kovalchuk was one of the more complete superstars in the league, anyone saying otherwise didn't watch him past his first couple of seasons.

 

[Kin]

He sucks, he's a bumb! A Kovalchuk type, the most useless 40 goals anyone will ever score... never mind he's never scored 40.

Ilya Kovalchuk was one of the more complete superstars in the league, anyone saying otherwise didn't watch him past his first couple of seasons.

I think Kovalchuk is generally underrated and was a much more versatile offensive player than people give him credit for but complete? Like he wasn't complete the way, say, Jonathan Toews is complete.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I think Kovalchuk is generally underrated and was a much more versatile offensive player than people give him credit for but complete? Like he wasn't complete the way, say, Jonathan Toews is complete.

Toews/Kopitar/Datsyuk/Bergeron/Hossa? No. But I'd probably have put him in the next group.