Leafs @ Sabres - Apr. 1st, 7:30pm - SN, TSN 1050

[TML fan]

"Because I want them to" is not a valid answer to my question.

I don't think that's the answer I've given. The coach, the management, the fans and some of the other players on the team have wanted a better effort.

I actually think you avoided the question altogether but that was the closest I could get to an actual response.

Again, where's the motivation? Those guys are all under contract. At least one of them probably won't be on the team next year. They've basically been told that the team will be non-competitive for the next several years. So, other than millions and millions of dollars, what is keeping them coming to the rink every day? What are they playing for? Everyone is playing for the name on the back of their jerseys at this point. They're playing for contracts, playing for jobs, or just playing out the string.

You say you know that they aren't robots but you expect a robotic level of competitiveness from them when you can't deny the fact that there is nothing left to play for.

So, while its all well and good for you, the coach, the fans, the players etc to "want" things out of them, there is actually no reason for them to provide any of it.

 

[Kin]

"Because I want them to" is not a valid answer to my question.

I don't think that's the answer I've given. The coach, the management, the fans and some of the other players on the team have wanted a better effort.

I actually think you avoided the question altogether but that was the closest I could get to an actual response.

Again, where's the motivation? Those guys are all under contract. At least one of them probably won't be on the team next year. They've basically been told that the team will be non-competitive for the next several years. So, other than millions and millions of dollars, what is keeping them coming to the rink every day? What are they playing for? Everyone is playing for the name on the back of their jerseys at this point. They're playing for contracts, playing for jobs, or just playing out the string.

You say you know that they aren't robots but you expect a robotic level of competitiveness from them when you can't deny the fact that there is nothing left to play for.

So, while its all well and good for you, the coach, the fans, the players etc to "want" things out of them, there is actually no reason for them to provide any of it.

I think you make a good point here where you know, for all of the talk about how this team is unlikeable or not working hard compared to teams of the past we do have to acknowledge that this Leafs team is in a situation largely unlike any other Leafs team in the past. What would Jean Beliveau done if one of his Canadien teams was blown up and told that, realistically, they wouldn't be playing to win for a couple years? It's nice to theorize based on the various testaments to his character but who the hell knows? What would he have been like with an 8 year 70 million dollar contract?

To honestly or fairly criticize the guys on this team you can't compare them across generations to guys who never experienced the same set of circumstances. Compare them to other modern examples of what happens when teams decide to rebuild.

 

[Highlander]

Cw you have not bought into the Tank. I never believed I would ever cheer for the Loafs to lose, but now I can't stand when they win. I don't know if this is Valium or Scotch or both but I think we all need to let the next 5 or 6 games go and then hit the reset button. The Cavalry is coming.

 

[TML fan]

Is it still considered tanking when you're just really, really bad?

 

[Highlander]

This was a team almost at the top of their division just before Christmas. What happened, did they get bad or were they playing over there heads? We traded two of the best players this year, Santorelli and Winneck, what were we expecting for the last games after they were gone?

 

[TML fan]

This was a team almost at the top of their division just before Christmas. What happened, did they get bad or were they playing over there heads? We traded two of the best players this year, Santorelli and Winneck, what were we expecting for the last games after they were gone?

They just had the one really good stretch. They were trending downward before they started selling off assets.

 

[hockeyfan1]

As per CW's link to article "Maple Leafs 'least  likeable group' ever", Brunt describes it succinctly ...

"They are the least likable group of professional athletes I think I?ve ever been around," said Brunt. "I don't know these guys. Just the way they play, outside of the arena, the way they come across ? they come across as the opposite of plucky underdogs that are trying really, really hard even if they?re not quite good enough. This is talented guys who are getting paid enormous amounts of money who stopped trying a long time ago and are kind of laughing at everybody. And that?s a bad vibe if you?re a consumer.

"That's a bad vibe if you're a fan, to think they care way less than I do. And that's how it's coming across whether that's 100 per cent true. It is really, really sour here."

 

[TML fan]

Nobody is denying that. I'm frustrated too. As a fan you get invested in the team and when they don't try it makes you realize that you're wasting your time. All that said, I understand it. Regardless of the enormous sums of money they earn to play hockey, they are people doing a job in a thankless environment. They have nothing to play for. The fans don't care if they win or lose...in fact most seem to prefer they lose, and the team itself has made it known that they're going to move on without most of these guys. The team element is gone. These guys are playing for themselves. The only guys left with anything to play for are those with something to gain or something to prove.

They have contracts. They have no other choice. If it wasn't for all that money, they wouldn't even bother showing up.

 

[Kin]

I don't have the slightest problem with what Brunt said(aside from the fact that he admits he's doing so from an outsider's perspective) however it's important to note that Brunt didn't single anyone out. I don't think anyone would really have a problem with large scale comments about what the team is doing or how enjoyable it's been to be a fan of this Leafs team this season. Where people have problems is with the selective and arbitrary and unreasonable way certain players are being isolated for that blame. It's a team-wide mess created by team-wide conditions.

 

[moon111]

4 page thread, maybe could say 2 were game related.  Most pathetic sports team. 

 

[Redleaf]

There is certainly a lot of justified bashing going on here, but looking at the positive side of things, next year should be a completely different animal, as far as how this team plays and competes. Young guys coming in with fire in their bellies will make a world of difference in that department. The win/loss column might be similar, but I honestly think we will see a more 'likable' group of guys on the ice if management decides to do a 'full on' rebuild.

 

[Lynx]

There is certainly a lot of justified bashing going on here, but looking at the positive side of things, next year should be a completely different animal, as far as how this team plays and competes. Young guys coming in with fire in their bellies will make a world of difference in that department. The win/loss column might be similar, but I honestly think we will see a more 'likable' group of guys on the ice if management decides to do a 'full on' rebuild.

I wouldn't expect too many young guys next year. The teams best prospects are at least a year away, and the guys that might be ready would probably be best served to be kept away from the NHL next year. I'm expecting a bunch of guys that have been around the league for a few years and aren't very good. Toronto next year should look a lot like Buffalo did this year.

 

[cw]

"Because I want them to" is not a valid answer to my question.

I don't think that's the answer I've given. The coach, the management, the fans and some of the other players on the team have wanted a better effort.

I actually think you avoided the question altogether but that was the closest I could get to an actual response.

Again, where's the motivation? Those guys are all under contract. At least one of them probably won't be on the team next year. They've basically been told that the team will be non-competitive for the next several years. So, other than millions and millions of dollars, what is keeping them coming to the rink every day? What are they playing for? Everyone is playing for the name on the back of their jerseys at this point. They're playing for contracts, playing for jobs, or just playing out the string.

You say you know that they aren't robots but you expect a robotic level of competitiveness from them when you can't deny the fact that there is nothing left to play for.

So, while its all well and good for you, the coach, the fans, the players etc to "want" things out of them, there is actually no reason for them to provide any of it.

When they were playing .600+ hockey up to some point in the middle of December, there was every reason for them to provide effort. As much reason as any other team in team sport. Things got tough, they slumped, abandoned their coach/system/playing defense and they effectively quit. There is the context of time to consider in this. Some in this bunch packed it in pretty quickly.

Any championship club may be able to withstand a passenger or two or a jerk or two but the core of a championship club typically can't. Packing it in as they did, there's some rotten spineless character in the core of this hockey team.

You want to cheer for them? That's your right as a fan. I won't. That's my right as a fan. You want to keep quiet or look the other way? That too is your prerogative as a fan. I choose otherwise. In my view, this is unacceptable behavior on a hockey team and they need to purge it.

 

[TML fan]

So you pinpointed the exact moment they quit? Might it have been around the time the team told them they're rebuilding, and they started selling off assets?

Also, it's pretty sad that you're trying to compare this Leafs squad to a championship calibre team. Championship calibre teams don't have three 4th lines....

 

[OldTimeHockey]

You want to cheer for them? That's your right as a fan. I won't. That's my right as a fan. You want to keep quiet or look the other way? That too is your prerogative as a fan. I choose otherwise. In my view, this is unacceptable behavior on a hockey team and they need to purge it.

You should write a book on being a fan.

 

[Chris]

I don't understand why some of you are so willing to look the other way just because management admitted they would be rebuilding. These are professional athletes getting paid millions of dollars to play a game. They should show some pride, play with effort for their teammates and the fans. Ridiculous that a team with so much talent (relative to Buffalo) has performed this badly for 40 games.

 

[Kin]

I don't understand why some of you are so willing to look the other way just because management admitted they would be rebuilding.

It's not about "looking the other way". It's about looking at it in the proper context and being rational about it, not comparing them to Gordie Howe and being unreasonable about natural human responses.

Nobody has yet to point to another example of a team in the same situation and said "See, look at how hard that team that tried after management started breaking them down" as a point of valid comparison where this Leafs team falls short. Look at the Coyotes this year. Do you think they've played with a ton of energy and competitiveness since they decided to tear it down? Are they a more or less relevant point of comparison than Jean Beliveau's Canadiens?

You can talk all you want about what you think people "should" do in a given situation but my response to the last few months is more based on what people actually do in that situation.

 

[Redleaf]

I don't understand why some of you are so willing to look the other way just because management admitted they would be rebuilding. These are professional athletes getting paid millions of dollars to play a game. They should show some pride, play with effort for their teammates and the fans. Ridiculous that a team with so much talent (relative to Buffalo) has performed this badly for 40 games.

My response has been to stop buying merchandise and tickets to their games. Is hoping they lose to get a good player in the draft (so that they can hopefully turn this mess around sometime in my lifetime), looking the other way? If that's what you mean, than I'm guilty. Do you have other suggestions? Hate mail? I'm not sure how you think fans should be responding?

 

[Chris]

I don't understand why some of you are so willing to look the other way just because management admitted they would be rebuilding. These are professional athletes getting paid millions of dollars to play a game. They should show some pride, play with effort for their teammates and the fans. Ridiculous that a team with so much talent (relative to Buffalo) has performed this badly for 40 games.

My response has been to stop buying merchandise and tickets to their games. Is hoping they lose to get a good player in the draft (so that they can hopefully turn this mess around sometime in my lifetime), looking the other way? If that's what you mean, than I'm guilty. Do you have other suggestions? Hate mail? I'm not sure how you think fans should be responding?

No, I've been rooting for the losses as well. I'm talking about the period around/after the coaching change, when the team could theoretically have responded in a positive way to the changes and the challenge from Shanahan...and instead turtled. People seem to explain that away, oh poor players, management gave up on them, etc.