BlueWhiteBlood
New member
Boston Leaf said:
I've also noticed that on many a night, Phaneuf is even or a plus in bad games or loss. Say whatever about the stats, he's having a solid year and is extremely important for this team.
Leafs sign Dion Phaneuf to 7 year extension
- Thread starter Deebo
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I've also noticed that on many a night, Phaneuf is even or a plus in bad games or loss. Say whatever about the stats, he's having a solid year and is extremely important for this team.
L K
Active member
First thanks Nik for saying that about QoC. I keep thinking that every time the stat gets brought up. Phaneuf plays the tough minutes for Toronto, but for some reason seems to have his play drop off in those games where he leetches higher up in TOI/G. I don't know if it is conditioning or just a physical limitation in his game that he isn't able to overcome.
I think Phaneuf has sacrificed his offensive game to play a more defensive role. I think that's a reasonable thing to do, but it also means that he gives up on a number of close offensive possessions that he used to be able to keep going for the team (mostly during his Calgary days).
The flip side is that Carlyle's/the Leafs strategy of play stuck in the defensive zone for 40+ minutes a night means the Leafs team is just getting killed from an energy standpoint. I think it comes through in a lot of their late 3rd period play. They give up tying goals. They can't get the puck out of their own end when down by a goal. Carlyle's obsession with throwing Phaneuf out for every single tough shift in combination with only playing 3 lines really hurts the team down the stretch of games. Dion especially.
I'd really like to see some part of Dion's game get cut back though. Either put him on the 2nd PP unit or give him a few less 5on5 shifts and see if that gives him a little more energy to balance out his offensive game again.
I think Phaneuf has sacrificed his offensive game to play a more defensive role. I think that's a reasonable thing to do, but it also means that he gives up on a number of close offensive possessions that he used to be able to keep going for the team (mostly during his Calgary days).
The flip side is that Carlyle's/the Leafs strategy of play stuck in the defensive zone for 40+ minutes a night means the Leafs team is just getting killed from an energy standpoint. I think it comes through in a lot of their late 3rd period play. They give up tying goals. They can't get the puck out of their own end when down by a goal. Carlyle's obsession with throwing Phaneuf out for every single tough shift in combination with only playing 3 lines really hurts the team down the stretch of games. Dion especially.
I'd really like to see some part of Dion's game get cut back though. Either put him on the 2nd PP unit or give him a few less 5on5 shifts and see if that gives him a little more energy to balance out his offensive game again.
GhostofPotvin29
New member
L K said:
Is that true though? It seemed like in his Calgary days the majority (or a very significant amount) of his offensive production came from getting ~5:00 per game on the PP when PP's in the league were way up.
L K
Active member
Potvin29 said:
He wasn't a Gardiner style rusher, but he used to carry the puck up the ice and create scoring chances. He was also far more aggressive at taking shots. That's not always a good thing, but now he passes up a lot of shots even when he has time to get one toward the net.
bustaheims
Active member
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
His name has been brought up by a few people in terms of being the 7th or 8th guy on the roster, and we have no idea whether or not those in charge have discussed him (though, I'm relatively certain that they have).
Kin
New member
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
That probably depends on what you mean by "in the conversation" because at some point I'm almost certain someone in that room said "What about Dion Phaneuf" in the same way they've probably talked about 25-30 defensemen who aren't going to make the team.
I don't know where I'd rank Phaneuf in terms of Canadian defensemen but looking at the group that they're probably going to put together and what they seem to be emphasizing then...no, it doesn't strike me as overly significant that Phaneuf's not among them or even all that serious a candidate for one of the bottom spots. When you consider that of Brent Seabrook, Dan Boyle, PK Subban and Kris Letang there's probably only going to be room for two, maybe three of them then I completely understand why we haven't heard more about Phaneuf's candidacy.
If you're a "Phaneuf is a top 10 defenseman" person I guess you might be surprised but even they, I think, would recognize that Phaneuf seems somewhat poorly suited to the international game.
L K said:
His game has changed but then he also had Iginla in his prime causing havoc down low on the power play early on. He could shoot more but I don't mind him looking for alternatives too, especially when he doesn't have the more comfortable one timer-ish shot available.
J
Jalili
Guest
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
It's one of those things you can't really look into too much.
On NHL ice I think he would have been strongly considered, but like you said mobility is placed at a premium for international ice, hence why he won't be selected.
Kin
New member
Snoopzilla said:
Well, except there I think you're drastically overstating the import that skating is having here. Skating takes on some added weight on the big ice but not to the extent that you're making out, where it would significantly change who gets taken and who doesn't. Mobility might break a tie in some cases but as we saw from the American roster there's still reason to take less mobile stay at home defensemen, something Canada did in '98(Stevens, Foote) and '06 (Foote, Regehr). And things don't really change on smaller ice surfaces, in '10 Canada had no slugs on the blue line and, in fact, I thought the mobility of their defense was one of the stronger aspects of the team. The international game is different, sure, but not that different. Nobody in '06 was pushing Bret Hedican for the team*.
If Phaneuf's mobility was such that it precluded him from inclusion compared to some of the guys named above then it would not be an issue limited to international play, it would reflect badly on his NHL abilities too. That's where I think ZBBM's question has some merit. The fact that Phaneuf doesn't seem to be a serious candidate here for the top 8, maybe not the top 10 or even top 12 Canadian defensemen is a legitimate statement, I think, on how he's seen outside of this market. If he is widely seen as one of Canada's top 5 or 6 defensemen, as some people here have claimed, then there would be a very strong push for him to be on the team, regardless of ice size.
Provided you're not someone who reacts to any perceived slight against Dion Phaneuf like someone was badmouthing your favourite child that shouldn't be read as much of a criticism. Being one of the top 15 or 20 Canadian defenseman in the league is pretty good.
*For all I know someone might have advocated Hedican. Still, I think it's pretty fair to say the '06 and '98 teams didn't lose because of Adam Foote.
Britishbulldog
Active member
I have read in various threads here the frustration with Phaneuf's play, hockey IQ and general performance. Although that is a concern to me it is his leadership issues that plaque my opinion of him.
There have been a few things that have bothered me this year but it really came to a head when Ranger was injured in the Tampa game. When the refs began the intermission 4 secs early, Phaneuf left Ranger on the ice and headed done the hallway to the locker room. After awhile he finally came back out and joined his concerned team mates and Tampa players. HE IS THE CAPTAIN!
Then after the poor showing in the St Louis game he ducked out and left Lupul explaining how the team felt, etc. That for me was the final straw.
I know most of heard that players didn't like him in Calgary and that most players in the NHL don't like him but I wasn't too worried about that. I know that he has played poorly for the Leafs sometimes as one of the highest paid players in the NHL but I wasn't too worried about that either.
This poor leadership of a 29 year old, 8 year NHL veteran as Captain of the Leafs I believe is one of the issues. He is no Gilmour or Clark as far as displaying character is concerned. If he wasn't the captain and establishing the tone of the players I wouldn't be as concerned.
I wish that April 16th, after the draft lottery is finished and if Edmonton is in the top 3, that the Leafs send Phaneuf home with the Leafs 1st pick (7th overall?) to Edmonton for their pick (2nd overall) and Nonis can get Ekblad.
Too radical??
There have been a few things that have bothered me this year but it really came to a head when Ranger was injured in the Tampa game. When the refs began the intermission 4 secs early, Phaneuf left Ranger on the ice and headed done the hallway to the locker room. After awhile he finally came back out and joined his concerned team mates and Tampa players. HE IS THE CAPTAIN!
Then after the poor showing in the St Louis game he ducked out and left Lupul explaining how the team felt, etc. That for me was the final straw.
I know most of heard that players didn't like him in Calgary and that most players in the NHL don't like him but I wasn't too worried about that. I know that he has played poorly for the Leafs sometimes as one of the highest paid players in the NHL but I wasn't too worried about that either.
This poor leadership of a 29 year old, 8 year NHL veteran as Captain of the Leafs I believe is one of the issues. He is no Gilmour or Clark as far as displaying character is concerned. If he wasn't the captain and establishing the tone of the players I wouldn't be as concerned.
I wish that April 16th, after the draft lottery is finished and if Edmonton is in the top 3, that the Leafs send Phaneuf home with the Leafs 1st pick (7th overall?) to Edmonton for their pick (2nd overall) and Nonis can get Ekblad.
Too radical??
Right now, I think Gardiner and Rielly are the Leafs two best defencemen, in spite of some of their mistakes. They are the only two that can actually skate the puck out of their own end and create some offense. They are quick enough to recover from a mistake, and are both getting better with at least tying up the opposing player. I would break up the Phanuef Gunner combo, and play one of these guys with Phaneuf. Then, readjustment the rest. I hope during the off-season overhaul, these are two pieces they don't trade. I'd sooner see Phaneuf go, but with his contract and play, not to mention being captain, they is probably highly unlikely.
Strangelove
New member
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
Your assessment was in no way unique or against the grain. But yeah, he ain't worth what he's getting right now, and I don't look forward to seeing how much he's going to slow down even more in the next couple years.
GhostofPotvin29
New member
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
Who, in your opinion, are the D in the league who you can build your team around? And what is your criteria?
