Luongo

[TML fan]

The truth of the matter is, I never "complained" about Reimer. I simply pointed out that goaltending wasn't good enough. I still think Reimer can be the guy.

I will gladly admit I'm wrong if and when that day comes.

 

[Redleaf]

The truth of the matter is, I never "complained" about Reimer. I simply pointed out that goaltending wasn't good enough. I still think Reimer can be the guy.

I will gladly admit I'm wrong if and when that day comes.

Just do it now and save us all the grief.

 

[Bender]

The truth of the matter is, I never "complained" about Reimer. I simply pointed out that goaltending wasn't good enough. I still think Reimer can be the guy.

I will gladly admit I'm wrong if and when that day comes.

I would never want any of these guys on my team. Their not winning Cups is a strike against them and ONLY them.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1188128-stanley-cup-finals-2012-20-best-players-to-never-win-a-stanley-cup/page/2

 

[TML fan]

The truth of the matter is, I never "complained" about Reimer. I simply pointed out that goaltending wasn't good enough. I still think Reimer can be the guy.

I will gladly admit I'm wrong if and when that day comes.

Just do it now and save us all the grief.

 

[Bender]

Bender, to unjerkishly answer your earlier question about what I would do, I would come back with Reimer. I like to think that Burke and the Leafs actually do know something and that they are right about Reimer being the real deal. I guess I am just more patient than most.

I would like to see the Leafs improve on size and toughess more than anything.

So you think that the best option we have for goaltending going forward is Reimer? Do you think he will put up Luongo-like numbers over the course of his career? Are there any alternative goaltenders that we could realistically trade for that you would target?

To be perfectly honest if we're going to go with either Scrivens or Reimer as a 1A I want to at LEAST have some kind of vet mentoring one of them as the season goes along. I think we should at the very least take a look at Biron for a backup role.

 

[TML fan]

Given the current state of the team, yes i think Reimer is the best option. I think Reimer is the real deal and yeah, he could put up similar numbers.

I think the whole idea of a "veteran mentor" is entirely overrated. I think people put too much stock into things like "veteran presence" and "top six forwards". If we can find a GOOD backup, who happens to be a veteran, then that's great. Scrivens might be equally as good. I'm not going to go out of my way to get a veteran goalie just for the sake of it.

 

[rdowdall]

Given the current state of the team, yes i think Reimer is the best option. I think Reimer is the real deal and yeah, he could put up similar numbers.

I think the whole idea of a "veteran mentor" is entirely overrated. I think people put too much stock into things like "veteran presence" and "top six forwards". If we can find a GOOD backup, who happens to be a veteran, then that's great. Scrivens might be equally as good. I'm not going to go out of my way to get a veteran goalie just for the sake of it.

Maybe it will be like the time Fletcher traded Peter Ing for Grant Fuhr ( yes I know there were other players in the deal ).  Reimer goes for Luongo.  Luongo comes in, does a somewhat adequate job before being unseated by some hotshot rookie (maybe Scrivens) and then Burke trades Luongo for a power forward to compliment his all heart play making centre that he stole from some other team.

I think Burke would be stupid not to make this trade given the above historical reference.

 

[Zee]

I'm really surprised at the amount of naysayers for getting Luongo.  I still think he's one of the best and most consistent goalies in the league over the last 7-8 years.  Why wouldn't you want that on your team?  Having him clears up any issue on who is #1 and takes pressure off the young goalies so they can develop at their own pace and aren't rushed into heavy workload before they're ready.

 

[cw]

I'm really surprised at the amount of naysayers for getting Luongo.  I still think he's one of the best and most consistent goalies in the league over the last 7-8 years.  Why wouldn't you want that on your team?  Having him clears up any issue on who is #1 and takes pressure off the young goalies so they can develop at their own pace and aren't rushed into heavy workload before they're ready.

With Luongo's 10 years outstanding on his $5+ mil/yr cap hit contract, I guess the kids will finally have plenty of time to develop!!

I don't see many debating his short term ability to play goal. I'm sure ignoring all else, the vast majority of Leafs fans would like Luongo playing on this team and see him as a clear upgrade next year. The naysayers are largely concerned with his contract and the effect it may have on constructing a Cup contender in the years to come. If there was no CBA cap issue, I know my feelings about getting him would be dramatically different and his trade value would be considerably higher for the Canucks.

 

[Zee]

I'm really surprised at the amount of naysayers for getting Luongo.  I still think he's one of the best and most consistent goalies in the league over the last 7-8 years.  Why wouldn't you want that on your team?  Having him clears up any issue on who is #1 and takes pressure off the young goalies so they can develop at their own pace and aren't rushed into heavy workload before they're ready.

With Luongo's 10 years outstanding on his $5+ mil/yr cap hit contract, I guess the kids will finally have plenty of time to develop!!

I don't see many debating his short term ability to play goal. I'm sure ignoring all else, the vast majority of Leafs fans would like Luongo playing on this team and see him as a clear upgrade next year. The naysayers are largely concerned with his contract and the effect it may have on constructing a Cup contender in the years to come. If there was no CBA cap issue, I know my feelings about getting him would be dramatically different and his trade value would be considerably higher for the Canucks.

A $5.3M cap hit on a #1 goalie is not that big.  It's the length that's the issue.  That being said, I still see Luongo able to be a top goalie for 5-6 years.  After that who knows, but at that point there's only 4-5 years left, options for buyout or trades (there are always teams willing to take on players, that's been shown)

Ideally, I'd like to see Luongo solidify the Leafs position for the next 2-3 years tops, have one of the young guys ready to go at that point (yes I know Scrivens and Reimer won't be "young" by then, but still young enough) and then look to move Luongo in a trade.  If he's been performing at a high level there should be teams looking for a goalie (he would only be 35-36 years old at that point)

 

[cw]

there are always teams willing to take on players, that's been shown

Cristobal Huet, Jeff Finger and Wade Redden, as examples, might not agree with you. And the upcoming CBA may not allow teams to bury those deals like teams did with those players.

 

[Zee]

there are always teams willing to take on players, that's been shown

Cristobal Huet, Jeff Finger and Wade Redden, as examples, might not agree with you. And the upcoming CBA may not allow teams to bury those deals like teams did with those players.

C'mon, you're comparing average players to a guy who's been among the best stats for goalies over his career, there's a difference.

 

[bustaheims]

C'mon, you're comparing average players to a guy who's been among the best stats for goalies over his career, there's a difference.

By the time the Leafs would be in the position that they'd be looking to move him for cap reasons, Luongo will also be a pretty average player. Don't forget that Wade Redden was, at one point, considered to be an elite puck moving defenceman.

 

[Redleaf]

C'mon, you're comparing average players to a guy who's been among the best stats for goalies over his career, there's a difference.

By the time the Leafs would be in the position that they'd be looking to move him for cap reasons, Luongo will also be a pretty average player. Don't forget that Wade Redden was, at one point, considered to be an elite puck moving defenceman.

That's really making a rather large assumption.

 

[bustaheims]

That's really making a rather large assumption.

No larger than any other assumption made in this thread, and, one that's based on the history of the position. Very few goaltenders still perform at a high level when they're getting close to 40, and those that do have been among the best to ever play the position.

 

[Kin]

Very few goaltenders still perform at a high level when they're getting close to 40, and those that do have been among the best to ever play the position.

Well, some are, but there are a decent handful of goalies around who've been pretty good into that age who aren't greats. At least good enough that they're probably not going to be comparable to Wade Redden and be untradable.

edit: Well, I think this was a case of my memory not matching up to the facts. 37-38 really does seem to be the end for a lot of goalies that I thought had played well for a few years past that(Burke, Irbe, Osgood,  Cujo)

That said, it's not super uncommon for goalies to play up to back-up status at around that age and considering the discrepancy between Luongo's cap hit and dollars owed at that point he may still have some additional value.

 

[bustaheims]

Well, some are, but there are a decent handful of goalies around who've been pretty good into that age who aren't greats. At least good enough that they're probably not going to be comparable to Wade Redden and be untradable.

edit: Well, I think this was a case of my memory not matching up to the facts. 37-38 really does seem to be the end for a lot of goalies that I thought had played well for a few years past that(Burke, Irbe, Osgood,  Cujo)

That said, it's not super uncommon for goalies to play up to back-up status at around that age and considering the discrepancy between Luongo's cap hit and dollars owed at that point he may still have some additional value.

That's kind of what I'm getting at. Being a $5M+ cap hit backup goalie would make him just about as untradable as Wade Redden. The only thing that might give him some value is that the real dollars won't match up to the cap, though, we've yet to really see an example of that play out in the real world.

 

[Deebo]

Well, some are, but there are a decent handful of goalies around who've been pretty good into that age who aren't greats. At least good enough that they're probably not going to be comparable to Wade Redden and be untradable.

edit: Well, I think this was a case of my memory not matching up to the facts. 37-38 really does seem to be the end for a lot of goalies that I thought had played well for a few years past that(Burke, Irbe, Osgood,  Cujo)

That said, it's not super uncommon for goalies to play up to back-up status at around that age and considering the discrepancy between Luongo's cap hit and dollars owed at that point he may still have some additional value.

That's kind of what I'm getting at. Being a $5M+ cap hit backup goalie would make him just about as untradable as Wade Redden. The only thing that might give him some value is that the real dollars won't match up to the cap, though, we've yet to really see an example of that play out in the real world.

The floor will continue to rise over the next few years, even if the percentage split goes down to 50/50. (based on the 70M cap this year, if the NHL is able to get 50/50 the cap would only drop 3 million from last year.)

And as the floor does rise, the low revenue clubs might find those types of deals increasingly attractive.

 

[Kin]

The floor will continue to rise over the next few years, even if the percentage split goes down to 50/50. (based on the 70M cap this year, if the NHL is able to get 50/50 the cap would only drop 3 million from last year.)

And as the floor does rise, the low revenue clubs might find those types of deals increasingly attractive.

Maybe. But I have to imagine that one of the things the NHL will push for is some sort of change to the floor so that the small market teams aren't pushed to make Florida Panthers type signings.

 

[Jalili]

That's my point though. Is Luongo really the best option when a team that is significantly better than them is convinced he's not good enough to win them a cup? Are we that desperate to make the playoffs?

It's a gamble either way right? I mean, we're gambling that Luongo won't just come in a pull a Florida years where he puts up good numbers but doesn't get the team anywhere? So why not just gamble on the guys we have instead of giving up assets for an aging guy who hasn't really accomplished anything from a team that is actively trying to get rid of him?

Vancouver might be wrong, but they also might be right.

Because the guys we have in the system will probably end up getting lit up again. And what good would that do anyone? It hurts their development and ruins the team's chances of making the playoffs.

And what if they don't get lit up? More to the point, what if Luongo gets lit up?

How did gambling with a bunch of unproven goalies work out for us last season? The team has an extensive track record of going with unproven guys and mediocre vets in net, and the results speak for themselves. Maybe Luongo doesn't do so well here, and flops, but his statistical track record is very credible, far better than what the team has right now.

You guys give up so easily.

Isn't there an Einstein saying about doing the same thing again, again and again and expecting different results? I would say that applies to this situation.