• For users coming over from tmlfans.ca your username will remain the same but you will need to use the password reset feature (check your spam folder) on the login page in order to set your password. If you encounter issues, email Rick couchmanrick@gmail.com

Marlies Talk

My analysis:

The puck was shot in on a delayed off side.

The puck deflected off the referee in the corner. You can tell by the reaction of Scrivens. He looks at the ref and does a 'WTF?'.

The player who was offside cleared the zone before the puck went in. What's the ruling on that?


 
The apparent blown offside call aside, I always thought a puck going in off an official doesn't count. I know in other circumstances they're "part of the playing field," but I didn't think they could directly cause a goal.
 
Bonsixx said:
The apparent blown offside call aside, I always thought a puck going in off an official doesn't count. I know in other circumstances they're "part of the playing field," but I didn't think they could directly cause a goal.
Click to expand...

Sorry, Bonsixx. I changed my mind. I don't think it went off the ref. I'm watching highlights on my iPhone.

Obviously if it did go off the ref he would have called it no goal if that is the rule.

Edit: the rule is; disallowed if deflected off a ref.
 
"I will say this before you guys start asking questions; I would rather somebody take a pair of steel-toed boots and kick me in a delicate region than to lose a hockey game like that," Eakins said. "That is a tough way to lose in the playoffs - on a stanchion - after the boys battled so hard."

Eakins added:...you've seen guys shoot pucks in their own net, but I can never recall in any kind of league final a puck going in like that.

The overtime goal did provide some controversy. When Kostka shot the puck into the Toronto zone, two of his teammates were clearly offside. A replay shows both managed to clear the zone before the puck entered the net. So was it offside?

...it was...a goaltender's duel between Scrivens and Norfolk's Dustin Tokarski - two of the premier stoppers in the AHL. Scrivens was the top goalie in the league in the regular season, leading in goals-against average (1.94) and save percentage (.934). Tokarski has assembled the best numbers in the playoffs with a 1.63 GAA and was tied with Scrivens with a .940 SP.

Even Norfolk coach Jon Cooper could not believe his team's good fortune.

"If there's one thing I can say about this year, and I know it is far from over, there are things from the (28-game) win streak to some of the games we have played, that I never thought I would witness in my life, I am sick to my stomach for Scrivens," Cooper said. "That was a tough break for the kid.

...announced attendance was 8,084. The game marked the first professional hockey game ever played in Toronto in June.

From:
sportsnet link

BTW Former Maple Leaf Steve Thomas is Norfolk's assistant coach.
 
The AHL rules are a little different from the NHL on this (I thought they were the same):
http://cdn.rapidmanager.com/ahl/files/11_12_AHLRuleBook.pdf
83.4  Disallowed Goal ? If the puck is shot on goal during a delayed offside, the play shall be allowed to continue under the normal clearing the-zone rules. Should the puck, as a result of this shot, enter the defending team?s goal, either directly or off the goalkeeper, a player or an official on the ice, the goal shall be disallowed as the original shot was off-side. The fact that the attacking team may have cleared the zone prior to the puck entering the goal has no bearing on this ruling. The face-off will be conducted at the face-off spot in the zone closest to the point of origin of the shot that gives the offending team the least amount of territorial advantage.

The only way an attacking team can score a goal on a delayed offside situation is if the defending team shoots or puts the puck into their own net without action or contact by the offending team.

The AHL rule is clearer in this situation because it deals with clearing the zone. The video clearly shows it was a delayed offside - an opposing player was in the offensive zone when the shoot in entered the offensive zone. Therefore, clearly under the AHL rules, the goal should not have counted.

So the Marlies didn't just get a crazy, unlucky bounce - without question, they got a bad call to go with it to cost them the game.
 
According to Cox's article this morning:
Toronto Marlies cry foul after bizarre loss to Norfolk Admirals in Game 3 of Calder Cup final
The Marlies did complain about the non call last night (which I posted above Eakins had not done because I didn't see it in his comments to the media after the game).

EDIT: Contrary to this Globe article suggesting Eakins didn't question it, I think he did when he described it as a grey area:
Bizarre OT winner in Calder Cup should have been disallowed
Even Marlies coach Dallas Eakins said he had never seen a play like it and assumed in his postgame press conference than the right call had been made.

?I saw it and it?s a real interesting one for the referees,? Eakins said. ?The puck comes out, the puck?s rimmed in, there?s a guy that?s offside by about eight to 10 feet, the puck hits the stanchion, but now he is onside and it goes in your net. It?s a fairly grey area. Once again, something that I?ve never seen. I?m sure the referees have never seen anything like that either.?

It wasn?t until long after the game had finished and replays became available to the media that the mistake was caught, and league officials were not immediately available for comment.

It might be a grey area in the NHL rules, which does acknowledge uncertainty, but it isn't grey in the AHL rules and Eakins didn't point that out in his comments.
 
Sarge said:
Just watched the goal. Is any more proof needed that God hates us?
Click to expand...

Saw it on the highlights this morning, what a tough way to go down.  That Norfolk team is on a crazy run, what 42 out of 45 games now?  Marlies just couldn't do it with the injuries, even healthy it would have been a tall order the way Norfolk has been playing the last few months.
 
Zee said:
Sarge said:
Just watched the goal. Is any more proof needed that God hates us?
Click to expand...

Saw it on the highlights this morning, what a tough way to go down.  That Norfolk team is on a crazy run, what 42 out of 45 games now?  Marlies just couldn't do it with the injuries, even healthy it would have been a tall order the way Norfolk has been playing the last few months.
Click to expand...

It is worse then a tough way to go down.  If was a delayed offside that when the puck went in should have been blown dead.

After seeing Norfolk finish checks, run our goalie and constantly getting good scoring chances that the Marlies didn't duplicate on any accounts, it is sad that the game was ended this way.
 
I'm still stunned by the way it ended. I can't think of any playoff game than ended with such misfortune. The closest I can think of off hand was Dan Boyle scoring on his own net in a Sharks-Avs series.

Having said that, between the two teams, the Admirals outplayed the Marlies skaters in the 2nd, 3rd and OT. So arguably, they were the more deserving team. I actually looked for a weak player on the Admirals and I haven't identified one yet. They all seem to skate and play well.
 
I think I would rather score on my own net than have the puck go in like that.  At least if you do it, you controlled your own fate.

This was the ghost of Harold Ballard sitting on top of the glass, sticking his foot out.

Also, didn't the Senators lose in the finals on a goal that Chris Phillips effectively scored on his own net? edit: Yep http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UezvSyvpIvM  8)
 
cw said:
I'm still stunned by the way it ended. I can't think of any playoff game than ended with such misfortune. The closest I can think of off hand was Dan Boyle scoring on his own net in a Sharks-Avs series.
Click to expand...

Steve Smith scoring on himself?
 
Sarge said:
cw said:
I'm still stunned by the way it ended. I can't think of any playoff game than ended with such misfortune. The closest I can think of off hand was Dan Boyle scoring on his own net in a Sharks-Avs series.
Click to expand...

Steve Smith scoring on himself?
Click to expand...

Although very similar to Boyle's error, I guess that one was worse because it ended the Oilers series against the Flames while Boye's error didn't cost or end the Sharks their series against the Avs.
 
Clearly under AHL rules , the refs erred and it should have been no-goal. There is no question of that.
This was not a missed call , life happens , missed calls sometimes decide games ( Gretzky slash ) but that?s hockey.
But this is different. This is an error on a ruling probably due to the difference in AHL rules and NHL rules in this situation.
TOTALLY different situation
The goal should be disallowed by the league , and the game should resume in overtime.
I think the Marlies should officially protest the game. How can you ask your players to give their all , if management does not stand behind them and do their best to support the players.
 
Corn Flake said:
I think I would rather score on my own net than have the puck go in like that.  At least if you do it, you controlled your own fate.

This was the ghost of Harold Ballard sitting on top of the glass, sticking his foot out.

Also, didn't the Senators lose in the finals on a goal that Chris Phillips effectively scored on his own net?
Click to expand...

Emery skated it in & and no it wasn't the actual winner - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhJkBKuBKYM... check that, yes it was, thanks a lot @sshole :p
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

About Us

This website is NOT associated with the Toronto Maple Leafs or the NHL.


It is operated by Rick Couchman and Jeff Lewis.
Back
Top