Mason Raymond invited to training camp UPDATE: Signed on 09/22

[Britishbulldog]

Lupul - Bozak - Kessel
JVR - Kadri - Kulemin
Raymond - Bolland - Clarkson
Mclaren - Mcclement - Orr

Looks good.

I'm surprised Raymond was only able to get a PTO. This is a good move by Nonis. Worst case scenario we release him from the tryout and carry on. Best case scenario he becomes the next Michael Grabner and flourishes after leaving the Canucks having been given the chance elsewhere.

I'd switch Clarkson to the 2nd Line and Kulemin to the 3rd. 

I'm excited to see how Raymond turns out, I think he can still play and would be a great fit.

I was thinking the opposite...keeping 3 lines together from last year and create a new 3rd line especially since it was said that Bolland and Clarkson were friends:

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Kulemin
Raymond - Bolland - Clarkson
Mclaren - McClement - Orr

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I was thinking the opposite...keeping 3 lines together from last year and create a new 3rd line especially since it was said that Bolland and Clarkson were friends:

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Kulemin
Raymond - Bolland - Clarkson
Mclaren - McClement - Orr

Clarkson's not going to be playing on our shutdown line though. He's not good enough defensively to handle that responsibility and it would kill his offensive production.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Jeff Blair, who's show I really enjoy by the way, was asking whether brining in Raymond was a "shot across the bow" to the Kadri camp.  Just plain dumb.  If a player of Raymonds calibre is available on a no-risk basis, you bring him in regardless of what contract squabbles are currently underway.

Dumb is right.  Just the usual dribble that I really cannot stand to listen to at all anymore.  The sports radio world is really starting to reach new lows for something to talk about.  I guess filling 24/7 with blabber has to go wherever it can for content, aka: stories out of nothing.

Just another example of the MLSE-owned media trying to hurt Kadri's negotiation stance at every turn. #kidding #kinda #idontevenknowanymore

 

[drummond]

Even if he's paid under $1M, that makes the Kadri/Franson situation even more difficult. I wonder how it all plays out.

I am wondering if bringing Raymond is not a part of larger plan such as trading Kulemin which could make Liles trade more attractive. There are apparently no takers for Liles but if Kuli is added, there might be takers. The Leafs would free up considerable amount of cap space (Liles+Kuli) to sign Franson/Kadri, while Raymond could in large extent replace Kuli.

 

[sneakyray]

Even if he's paid under $1M, that makes the Kadri/Franson situation even more difficult. I wonder how it all plays out.

I am wondering if bringing Raymond is not a part of larger plan such as trading Kulemin which could make Liles trade more attractive. There are apparently no takers for Liles but if Kuli is added, there might be takers. The Leafs would free up considerable amount of cap space (Liles+Kuli) to sign Franson/Kadri, while Raymond could in large extent replace Kuli.

this was originally my thought

 

[TML fan]

Even if he's paid under $1M, that makes the Kadri/Franson situation even more difficult. I wonder how it all plays out.

I am wondering if bringing Raymond is not a part of larger plan such as trading Kulemin which could make Liles trade more attractive. There are apparently no takers for Liles but if Kuli is added, there might be takers. The Leafs would free up considerable amount of cap space (Liles+Kuli) to sign Franson/Kadri, while Raymond could in large extent replace Kuli.

this was originally my thought

Mine as well. Kulemin is an awesome player but he's been somewhat relegated to a checking role on the Leafs. While I don't think he will be a 30 goalscorer in the future, he definitely has the offensive ability to be a second line scoring option at a reasonable price.

 

[Redleaf]

Even if he's paid under $1M, that makes the Kadri/Franson situation even more difficult. I wonder how it all plays out.

I am wondering if bringing Raymond is not a part of larger plan such as trading Kulemin which could make Liles trade more attractive. There are apparently no takers for Liles but if Kuli is added, there might be takers. The Leafs would free up considerable amount of cap space (Liles+Kuli) to sign Franson/Kadri, while Raymond could in large extent replace Kuli.

this was originally my thought

Mine as well. Kulemin is an awesome player but he's been somewhat relegated to a checking role on the Leafs. While I don't think he will be a 30 goalscorer in the future, he definitely has the offensive ability to be a second line scoring option at a reasonable price.

I think he's well suited for a third line checking role where he can pot a few once and a while.

 

[Jalili]

I was thinking the opposite...keeping 3 lines together from last year and create a new 3rd line especially since it was said that Bolland and Clarkson were friends:

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Kulemin
Raymond - Bolland - Clarkson
Mclaren - McClement - Orr

Clarkson's not going to be playing on our shutdown line though. He's not good enough defensively to handle that responsibility and it would kill his offensive production.

One of the positive things I read about Clarkson from NJ fans was that his production never took a hit going from a scoring line with guys like Elias to the 3rd line.

I wouldn't be against either combo but I really liked the makeup of the Lupul-Kadri-Kulemin line.

 

[Omallley]

Even if he's paid under $1M, that makes the Kadri/Franson situation even more difficult. I wonder how it all plays out.

I am wondering if bringing Raymond is not a part of larger plan such as trading Kulemin which could make Liles trade more attractive. There are apparently no takers for Liles but if Kuli is added, there might be takers. The Leafs would free up considerable amount of cap space (Liles+Kuli) to sign Franson/Kadri, while Raymond could in large extent replace Kuli.

this was originally my thought

Mine as well. Kulemin is an awesome player but he's been somewhat relegated to a checking role on the Leafs. While I don't think he will be a 30 goalscorer in the future, he definitely has the offensive ability to be a second line scoring option at a reasonable price.

That would be some significant cap relief for the Leafs. I wonder what teams would be interested (and what would be coming back as a result). There aren't a lot of teams with cap space left...

 

[bustaheims]

One of the positive things I read about Clarkson from NJ fans was that his production never took a hit going from a scoring line with guys like Elias to the 3rd line.

Nope. It just pretty much disappeared entirely after the first month or so. I don't watch enough Devils' hockey to be able to pinpoint causes for the drop off in his production last season, but, something caused him to go from 10 goals and 16 points in his first 14 games to 5 goals and 8 points in his next 34. At least, in 11/12, he was pretty consistent - until the playoffs, at least.

 

[princedpw]

Even if he's paid under $1M, that makes the Kadri/Franson situation even more difficult. I wonder how it all plays out.

I am wondering if bringing Raymond is not a part of larger plan such as trading Kulemin which could make Liles trade more attractive. There are apparently no takers for Liles but if Kuli is added, there might be takers. The Leafs would free up considerable amount of cap space (Liles+Kuli) to sign Franson/Kadri, while Raymond could in large extent replace Kuli.

Kulemin is probably the best defensive winger on the team.  From what I've heard, that's not Raymond's strong suit so Raymond would have a tough time replacing him.

The smart choice for saving cap space would have been to buyout Liles instead of Grabbo and avoid the Bozak signing.  That nets about $2 million in space.

 

[TML fan]

Even if he's paid under $1M, that makes the Kadri/Franson situation even more difficult. I wonder how it all plays out.

I am wondering if bringing Raymond is not a part of larger plan such as trading Kulemin which could make Liles trade more attractive. There are apparently no takers for Liles but if Kuli is added, there might be takers. The Leafs would free up considerable amount of cap space (Liles+Kuli) to sign Franson/Kadri, while Raymond could in large extent replace Kuli.

this was originally my thought

Mine as well. Kulemin is an awesome player but he's been somewhat relegated to a checking role on the Leafs. While I don't think he will be a 30 goalscorer in the future, he definitely has the offensive ability to be a second line scoring option at a reasonable price.

I think he's well suited for a third line checking role where he can pot a few once and a while.

Sure but he's also a free agent and an expensive 3rd liner who only scores "once in a while". He's alright defensively but he's not winning any Selke trophies. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up in Russia next year to be honest. Players need to be moved to make way for prospects. That's the nature of the game. They won't keep Kulemin forever. He still has relative value around the league. Now is honestly the time to move him, the cap notwithstanding.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

One of the positive things I read about Clarkson from NJ fans was that his production never took a hit going from a scoring line with guys like Elias to the 3rd line.

I wouldn't be against either combo but I really liked the makeup of the Lupul-Kadri-Kulemin line.

Busta already covered the problems with talking about Clarkson's scoring consistency, but that isn't even the issue here. New Jersey probably didn't use their 3rd line like Carlyle uses his, and that's in a highly defensive manner. Clarkson just wouldn't get any offensive opportunities there.

 

[princedpw]

Even if he's paid under $1M, that makes the Kadri/Franson situation even more difficult. I wonder how it all plays out.

I am wondering if bringing Raymond is not a part of larger plan such as trading Kulemin which could make Liles trade more attractive. There are apparently no takers for Liles but if Kuli is added, there might be takers. The Leafs would free up considerable amount of cap space (Liles+Kuli) to sign Franson/Kadri, while Raymond could in large extent replace Kuli.

this was originally my thought

Mine as well. Kulemin is an awesome player but he's been somewhat relegated to a checking role on the Leafs. While I don't think he will be a 30 goalscorer in the future, he definitely has the offensive ability to be a second line scoring option at a reasonable price.

I think he's well suited for a third line checking role where he can pot a few once and a while.

Sure but he's also a free agent and an expensive 3rd liner who only scores "once in a while". He's alright defensively but he's not winning any Selke trophies. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up in Russia next year to be honest. Players need to be moved to make way for prospects. That's the nature of the game. They won't keep Kulemin forever. He still has relative value around the league. Now is honestly the time to move him, the cap notwithstanding.

Yeah, Kulemin is basically a slightly better version of Clarkson -- about the same offensively, but much better defensively.  I'm sure we won't be able to afford to pay him Clarkson money when he becomes a UFA.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Kulemin is probably the best defensiveness winger on the team.  From what I've heard, that's not Raymond's strong suit so Raymond would have a tough time replacing him.

It wouldn't suit the Leafs to rid themselves  of Kulemin since, as you state, he is their best defensive forward.  This is an important asset for the team to have be it in the playoffs and as part of special teams.

If one had to choose between Kulemin & Raymond,  (on which player to keep) if it ever came to that, the choice would be Kulemin.

Two different players, two different styles.

 

[Corn Flake]

Kulemin is probably the best defensiveness winger on the team.  From what I've heard, that's not Raymond's strong suit so Raymond would have a tough time replacing him.

It wouldn't suit the Leafs to rid themselves  of Kulemin since, as you state, he is their best defensive forward.  This is an important asset for the team to have be it in the playoffs and as part of special teams.

If one had to choose between Kulemin & Raymond,  (on which player to keep) if it ever came to that, the choice would be Kulemin.

Two different players, two different styles.

the problem with Kulemin is $2.8 mil is a lot for a 3rd line guy who chips in a bit of offense and is around mostly for defensive and PK duties. yeah he's great at those things and a big part of the team but the value isn't there at $2.8. 

I think he stays this year but next year he won't be around.  Don't see other teams willing to pay him anything close to that either.  My bet is he's KHL bound next year.

 

[moon111]

Just a fan's take (from http://canucksarmy.com): Raymond, to many fans, symbolized what was wrong with the Canucks. He was not gritty, he was not a 'battler' who found an extra gear come play-offs, and *most importantly* for the team, his secondary scoring was never present when it was needed. Perhaps he aggravated an injury in the latter half of the season, but I'm more willing to chalk it up to his issues with consistency
I think getting out of the Canuck's expectations is going to do him good. 

 

[Redleaf]

Kulemin is probably the best defensiveness winger on the team.  From what I've heard, that's not Raymond's strong suit so Raymond would have a tough time replacing him.

It wouldn't suit the Leafs to rid themselves  of Kulemin since, as you state, he is their best defensive forward.  This is an important asset for the team to have be it in the playoffs and as part of special teams.

If one had to choose between Kulemin & Raymond,  (on which player to keep) if it ever came to that, the choice would be Kulemin.

Two different players, two different styles.

the problem with Kulemin is $2.8 mil is a lot for a 3rd line guy who chips in a bit of offense and is around mostly for defensive and PK duties. yeah he's great at those things and a big part of the team but the value isn't there at $2.8. 

I think he stays this year but next year he won't be around.  Don't see other teams willing to pay him anything close to that either.  My bet is he's KHL bound next year.

With some players heading for bridge contracts, and with others expiring next summer, it's almost shaping up to be 'go for it now' type of season. Even if the cap goes up, there may be some pretty substantial dismantling of this roster soon.

 

[Corn Flake]

Just a fan's take (from http://canucksarmy.com): Raymond, to many fans, symbolized what was wrong with the Canucks. He was not gritty, he was not a 'battler' who found an extra gear come play-offs, and *most importantly* for the team, his secondary scoring was never present when it was needed. Perhaps he aggravated an injury in the latter half of the season, but I'm more willing to chalk it up to his issues with consistency
I think getting out of the Canuck's expectations is going to do him good.

I can see that, but the Canucks problem is they have too many guys who are ALL like that, vs. having one guy who may not be the most physical player on the team or a guy who steps up in big games.  That entire team, save one or two of them, were outmuscled in the playoffs a lot and in many cases were intimidated as well. 

They definitely need "less" players like Raymond but that doesn't mean Raymond can't be a good player and productive in the right environment.

 

[bustaheims]

the problem with Kulemin is $2.8 mil is a lot for a 3rd line guy who chips in a bit of offense and is around mostly for defensive and PK duties. yeah he's great at those things and a big part of the team but the value isn't there at $2.8. 

I think he stays this year but next year he won't be around.  Don't see other teams willing to pay him anything close to that either.  My bet is he's KHL bound next year.

I think we need to get a new perspective on what $2.8M in cap really means in today's NHL. It's less than what Joel Ward is getting to play a similar role with similar production. It's less than what Florida gave Kopecky when he came off a season similar to what Kulemin has produced most of his NHL career. It's less than what Edmonton gave Boyd Gordon this summer to provide less offence in a defensive role. It's similar money to Frans Nielsen, Cal Clutterbuck, Kyle Brodziak and Sean Bergenheim. The value is absolutely there based on what similar players around the league are getting right now, and he will almost certainly get a similar contract next summer from an NHL team.