Although he doesn't have a point yet, I REALLY like this kid's potential. He can skate, shoot, hit, play defense. Along the boards, he's winning most of the battles. He has really strong legs and an ability to squeeze by d-men, that part kind of reminds me --and please don't take this the wrong way--of Sidney Crosby. He's just kind of built like him and he really determined. I'd like to see him get some PP time on the second PP.
Matt Frattin
- Thread starter slapshot
- Start date
I've seen bits and pieces of the first three games and have also been impressed with Frattin. The question in my mind about his future with the team this season comes down to numbers. When Connolly and Kadri return, will he be able to retain his spot? And perhaps more importantly, should he?
It's my opinion that while he deserves to remain on the Leafs roster on the third line, he might end up in the AHL simply because he provides the easy out from a management standpoint. He is too much of a talent to be the 13th forward or play on the fourth line (which I think also speaks to Kadri to some expense). I would rather see two receiving prime minutes with the Marlies and Orr or Rosehill rounding out the Leafs forwards.
The depth is a good problem to have, but it has become apparent that we have a glut of second and third tier talent throughout the team. I'm sure Burke's brain is cranking with possibilities to abracadabra two or three skaters into a top-line talent.
It's my opinion that while he deserves to remain on the Leafs roster on the third line, he might end up in the AHL simply because he provides the easy out from a management standpoint. He is too much of a talent to be the 13th forward or play on the fourth line (which I think also speaks to Kadri to some expense). I would rather see two receiving prime minutes with the Marlies and Orr or Rosehill rounding out the Leafs forwards.
The depth is a good problem to have, but it has become apparent that we have a glut of second and third tier talent throughout the team. I'm sure Burke's brain is cranking with possibilities to abracadabra two or three skaters into a top-line talent.
Guilt Trip
Active member
From my view....Frattin is ahead of Kadri at this point, and they're battling for the same spot. So for me Kadri and Rosehill can also be dropped to the Marlies.Stumpy said:
maplesyrup
New member
I'd like to see Kadri play at least 3 games too before making the call on who might be further ahead.
When Connolly returns and we have a healthy roster, both Kadri and Frattin are likely going down. So assuming Kadri gets back before Tim I'd send Frattin down first, only so Kadri can get a few games under his belt before going down too.
maplesyrup
New member
It could be fun though to see then take turns in the short term, battling for the permanency.
Guilt Trip
Active member
Totally disagree. Kadri should not get the chance at Frattin's expense. Frattin has played very well imo and deserves his spot. Kadri hasn't earned anything yet and was outplayed by Frattin in the pre season. If Frattin keeps doing what he's doing, i don't see him going anywhere. I see Lombardi getting dropped to the 4th line with Steckel and Brown....We could potentially have 4 lines that you could put out anytime. What a luxury that would be. I see Rosehill, and Kadri going down. Dupuis will be in and out with Brown or when injuries crop up.CarltonTheBear said:
So when everyone is healthy...
Lupul Connolly(Bozak) Kessel
Mac Grabs Kule
Army Bozak(Connolly) Frattin
Brown Lombardi Steckel(takes the faceoffs)
extras...Orr, Dupuis
7 D men, 2 goalies for a 23 man roster.....
I personally don't care if Orr gets in the lineup. I want talent in there before anything. Brown has proven to be an effective player defensively and he'll drop them when needed. Time to move away from the tough guy taking up a roster spot....
BlueWhiteBlood
New member
While I agree that we have a good player in Frattin and he's played relatively well, I don't think he has played lights out, like a few make it seem. He hasn't been as strong defensively and he's missed a few good chances offensively. I think he will be a good player going forward, after he acclimatizes to the NHL a bit more, but I'm not sure he should be given a spot regardless of other roster moves right now.
Kadri didn't get the entire pre-season and he hasn't been given a chance to prove something in regular games at all, which I think he at least deserves, minus a conditioning stint if you will to buy time. Frattin can go down to the Marlies, as he can come right back up whenever, so I'm not too sure it should be viewed as something bad really, ditto for Kadri, but Kadri should be given the chance that Frattin has had IMO.
Kadri didn't get the entire pre-season and he hasn't been given a chance to prove something in regular games at all, which I think he at least deserves, minus a conditioning stint if you will to buy time. Frattin can go down to the Marlies, as he can come right back up whenever, so I'm not too sure it should be viewed as something bad really, ditto for Kadri, but Kadri should be given the chance that Frattin has had IMO.
Guilt Trip said:
It may be unfair to give Kadri a chance at the expense of Frattin, but Frattin really only got his chance at the expense of Kadri because of his injury. You could say that Frattin would have won the spot anyway, but it was definitely a tight race. And Kadri played pretty good for parts of the preseason, especially on the line with Bozak and Armstrong.
But like I said, I would only go through with that plan if the idea was to send both players to the AHL once Connolly returned. If we could keep one of them up, I would probably lean towards Frattin too right now. But I'm still not convinced that one of them will be able to stay up, unless one of them plays lights out before Connolly returns. It comes down to whether or not one of them is a better fit for the 3rd line than Lombardi. And while I don't think Lombardi is up to speed quite yet, I think he's the better option to win games right now than either of those two. And right now Wilson's main goal is to win games, not to develop our young players (of course that's still important though).
My comments follow a very limited viewing of Frattin in the NHL. As a NCAAer and a rookie, he could easily taper off between now and Xmas. So far, I'm impressed.
He seems capable in all facets of the game. For the two goals he was on the ice for this season, he didn't bear much responsibility in my opinion.
I don't know where the skating knock might have come from. He's was all over the ice in the offensive zone in college. I saw clips of him in Leafs practice and had observed he's light on his feet. From that and the games, he seems to have above average speed for a forward and skates pretty well.
He's been a little snake bit. He's had at least three posts or crossbars.
When the inevitable comes up as Kadri gets cleared to play - apparently fair soon, it only requires a millisecond of deliberation for me: Frattin is the better NHLer at this moment in time and the contest in my opinion isn't all that close.
He is by a significant margin the more complete and better two way hockey player. Defensively:
- he's stronger and better at finishing his checks, doesn't get knocked on his fanny as easily
- he is better at winning puck battles along the boards
- he's a better hitter and more frequently finishes his checks
- he's more conservative with the puck and from that arguably, smarter with the puck defensively as he's not as prone to costly giveaways. Kadri's improving but not at his level yet.
Offensively right now, Kadri's the better waterbug while Frattin seems to have the better shot. Although my guess would be that Kadri has the talent for the better vision, I think Frattin makes the better percentage decisions on passing right now. Kadri might have an edge in the potential to put up more points while Frattin strikes me as being the better potential finisher. Time will tell.
When Connolly returns - presumably a few games later than Kadri based upon the most recent reports I've heard, that's a different problem that must be figured out. Frattin's development would be stunted on the 4th line. But do you keep Frattin on the 3rd line while Lombardi moves back to the 4th line? That seems nuts though I like Frattin's style of game better with a center like Bozak/Lombardi than I do having both Lombardi & Bozak on the same line because they seem more similar to me and less physical.
Of course if Kessel is still on fire with Bozak centering that line, they may want to leave well enough alone and have Connolly center the 3rd line while he works himself into game shape. He's reputed to be pretty good defensively and good on the PK. I need to give this one more thought but it obviously may force Frattin to the AHL. Of course, more injuries could change the debate again by the time that decision rolls around.
He seems capable in all facets of the game. For the two goals he was on the ice for this season, he didn't bear much responsibility in my opinion.
I don't know where the skating knock might have come from. He's was all over the ice in the offensive zone in college. I saw clips of him in Leafs practice and had observed he's light on his feet. From that and the games, he seems to have above average speed for a forward and skates pretty well.
He's been a little snake bit. He's had at least three posts or crossbars.
When the inevitable comes up as Kadri gets cleared to play - apparently fair soon, it only requires a millisecond of deliberation for me: Frattin is the better NHLer at this moment in time and the contest in my opinion isn't all that close.
He is by a significant margin the more complete and better two way hockey player. Defensively:
- he's stronger and better at finishing his checks, doesn't get knocked on his fanny as easily
- he is better at winning puck battles along the boards
- he's a better hitter and more frequently finishes his checks
- he's more conservative with the puck and from that arguably, smarter with the puck defensively as he's not as prone to costly giveaways. Kadri's improving but not at his level yet.
Offensively right now, Kadri's the better waterbug while Frattin seems to have the better shot. Although my guess would be that Kadri has the talent for the better vision, I think Frattin makes the better percentage decisions on passing right now. Kadri might have an edge in the potential to put up more points while Frattin strikes me as being the better potential finisher. Time will tell.
When Connolly returns - presumably a few games later than Kadri based upon the most recent reports I've heard, that's a different problem that must be figured out. Frattin's development would be stunted on the 4th line. But do you keep Frattin on the 3rd line while Lombardi moves back to the 4th line? That seems nuts though I like Frattin's style of game better with a center like Bozak/Lombardi than I do having both Lombardi & Bozak on the same line because they seem more similar to me and less physical.
Of course if Kessel is still on fire with Bozak centering that line, they may want to leave well enough alone and have Connolly center the 3rd line while he works himself into game shape. He's reputed to be pretty good defensively and good on the PK. I need to give this one more thought but it obviously may force Frattin to the AHL. Of course, more injuries could change the debate again by the time that decision rolls around.
