Nonis using depth to go shopping....

[princedpw]

LA has the worst offense in the league apparently. if i were trading with them, i might consider sending an offensive asset in the other direction for a future.  what about maccarther + a leafs third for LA's first round draft pick next year or something like that? (LA probably wouldnt go for it but perhaps you get the picture). 

i would slot in kadri or colborne to take the roster spot.

 

[Corn Flake]

I'd try it.. what the hell.. If it doesn't pan out? Nothing lost really. I really think he can be had for a song.  :-\

...can anyone help me out here?

Roberta Flack?

Its Raining Men!

 

[Britishbulldog]

I've been wondering about the possibility of a cap ceiling drop, wouldn't a general rollback become an issue in that case?

That's something that would have to be agreed upon as part of the negotiations. It's a possibility, but, it's certainly not a guarantee.

My guess is the floor drops, not the ceiling, and the overall revenue % share to the players drops with it.  The floor is killing the have not's and I think the bigger teams will be unhappy about a payroll cut yet again.


edit: my guess, meaning this is what I think the owners will be asking for.

I agree CF.  That is what I was thinking too.

 

[cw]

I've been wondering about the possibility of a cap ceiling drop, wouldn't a general rollback become an issue in that case?

That's something that would have to be agreed upon as part of the negotiations. It's a possibility, but, it's certainly not a guarantee.

My guess is the floor drops, not the ceiling, and the overall revenue % share to the players drops with it.  The floor is killing the have not's and I think the bigger teams will be unhappy about a payroll cut yet again.


edit: my guess, meaning this is what I think the owners will be asking for.

I agree CF.  That is what I was thinking too.

I think we'll see some give and take in more than one place. The floor may well drop some but I suspect revenue sharing will also be increased some along with an overall drop in the players share of the revenues that will reduce the cap some relative to where it otherwise would have been.

 

[Britishbulldog]

I think that problem stems from the lack of Armstrong and Brown in the lineup.

If we were to get Eager, would he be in your lineup if Armstrong and Brown were both in?

Armstrong is as useful for toughness as Steve Webb and less than Matt Cooke or Sean Avery.  Colby is apparently a fantastic team guy but on the ice is a wimp and dirty hitter.

Brown is a great middleweight sheriff ready to protect team mates but Eager is big enough to fight anyone necessary. Eager also can score and play a regular shift on the 3rd or 4th line.

If we compare the Leafs to the Cup Champs there is 4 areas where the Leafs blatantly lack. 

1. Experienced goaltending...but that might come over the next few years.

2. Top 6 power forward. 

I believe that the top 2 lines of Bergeron, Krejci, Marchand, Seguin and Horton are comparable to Connolly, Grabovski, MacArthur, Kessel and Lupul in skill speed and toughness.  What the Leafs don't have is a Lucic.  A Ryan Clowe type player in a Owen Nolan type trade which could be MacArthur (hoping that either Kulemin or Lombardi could replace him), Kadri and a 1st (or dman) would have to be acquired since no one in the system is comparable in my books.

3. A behemoth dman. 

On defense the Leafs match quite nicely #2-#6.  Unfortunately Phaneuf is not a freak of nature like Chara.  This can not be addressed as far as I see.

4. A 'sheriff' who can take a regular shift.

On the bottom six the Leafs are comparable as well except for Leaf draft pick Shawn Thornton who can fight and play a regular shift.  If Orr could do that then Leafs would have a superior bottom 6 with Kulemin/Lombardi, Bozak, Frattin/Armstrong, Brown and Steckel.  If Orr can't then Eager could fill the role on the 4th line with Steckel and Brown.

 

[Tigger]

Colby is a wimp and a dirty hitter? Didn't know that...

I still wish the Leafs had landed Talbot this year.

 

[Kin]

If we compare the Leafs to the Cup Champs there is 4 areas where the Leafs blatantly lack. 

But if the Leafs had done that the year before they'd have a totally different list of things that separated them from the Blackhawks. Likewise the year before with the Penguins.

 

[bustaheims]

But if the Leafs had done that the year before they'd have a totally different list of things that separated them from the Blackhawks. Likewise the year before with the Penguins.

No, no, no. The only way to build a Cup winner is to exactly what the team that just won the Cup did. All previous Cup winners are immediately rendered irrelevant when they are unable to repeat.

 

[Corn Flake]

I think the Leafs should build themselves exactly like the Vancouver Canucks........... minus the diving team and the collapsing goalie guy.

No ogre-sized PFs on that team.  No bruising hulk d-men either.  Oh, also.. no sheriff.

 

[Britishbulldog]

But if the Leafs had done that the year before they'd have a totally different list of things that separated them from the Blackhawks. Likewise the year before with the Penguins.

No, no, no. The only way to build a Cup winner is to exactly what the team that just won the Cup did. All previous Cup winners are immediately rendered irrelevant when they are unable to repeat.

So you would rather dissect a losing team?  Chicago had team similar to Boston as well in chemistry.  Besides Detroit what other team didn't have toughness and still won the Cup?

Nice comment though.  Showed intelligence.

 

[Britishbulldog]

Colby is a wimp and a dirty hitter? Didn't know that...

I still wish the Leafs had landed Talbot this year.

I have been biased against Armstrong since his Pittsburgh days... Letowski hit.  I could show some youtube videos of various hits and bore everyone but whatever. He also turtles which I won't waste time showing.

 

[Kin]

So you would rather dissect a losing team?  Chicago had team similar to Boston as well in chemistry.  Besides Detroit what other team didn't have toughness and still won the Cup?

I don't think you can look at the cup winning Canes or Penguins and find a Shawn Thornton type who played a regular shift. Likewise neither of those teams had much in the way of a physical #1 defenseman. Or experienced goaltending.

The point being, there's lots of ways to build a cup winner.

 

[Tigger]

But if the Leafs had done that the year before they'd have a totally different list of things that separated them from the Blackhawks. Likewise the year before with the Penguins.

No, no, no. The only way to build a Cup winner is to exactly what the team that just won the Cup did. All previous Cup winners are immediately rendered irrelevant when they are unable to repeat.

So you would rather dissect a losing team?  Chicago had team similar to Boston as well in chemistry.  Besides Detroit what other team didn't have toughness and still won the Cup?

Nice comment though.  Showed intelligence.

I guess that depends on how you define 'tough', teams that win the cup are tough to me. Pittsburgh didn't have a Lucic or Chara or Thornton, Chicago didn't have a Chara or Thomas, Carolina...Tampa...

I appreciate the recent cup winners as a comparison but there's more than one way to get to the promised land.

 

[Britishbulldog]

If we compare the Leafs to the Cup Champs there is 4 areas where the Leafs blatantly lack. 

But if the Leafs had done that the year before they'd have a totally different list of things that separated them from the Blackhawks. Likewise the year before with the Penguins.

I see the Chicago team as a similar chemistry to Boston.  Pittsburgh was close but not quite.  They also had 'franchise player' Crosby which balances most deficiencies nicely as well.

The exception I have seen is Detroit which had no sheriff or decent goaltending (no offense to Chris Osgood).  Vancouver certainly choked.  This might be to much of a rabbit trail from "Burke using depth etc...."

 

[bustaheims]

So you would rather dissect a losing team?  Chicago had team similar to Boston as well in chemistry.  Besides Detroit what other team didn't have toughness and still won the Cup?

Nice comment though.  Showed intelligence.

Just because Boston won the Cup their way doesn't mean the Leafs should follow their model. There is more than one path to the Cup. There always has been and there always will be. Every year, people come along and say their team needs to be built like the previous Cup winner, and, just about every year, another team comes along and wins the Cup with a different style. There is no blueprint.

 

[Britishbulldog]

I guess that depends on how you define 'tough', teams that win the cup are tough to me. Pittsburgh didn't have a Lucic or Chara or Thornton, Chicago didn't have a Chara or Thomas, Carolina...Tampa...

I appreciate the recent cup winners as a comparison but there's more than one way to get to the promised land.

I guess with Pittsburgh having enough high picks and franchise player Crosby becomes an equalizer and then with stellar goal tending from MA Fleury it was attainable without a Lucic or 4th line tough guy who could play.

Chara is a freak of nature and I feel that Chicago had a freak of nature as well with Byfuglien who gave opponents fits including Pronger.  Their goalie was amazing and they had Eager who is almost a duplicate of Thornton but 7 years younger.

Carolina was a surprise to me (and I suspect others too...at least I hope so) as a Cinderella team but had solid vets and outstanding goalie.  I wouldn't ever base a team on their makeup.  I am not even sure off the top of my head how many playoff rounds they have won since.

Anyway, I believe that there are certain elements that help a team be successful.  In the formula I just assumed that a franchise player or freak of nature really can't be included because they are so rare. 

 

[Kin]

Their goalie was amazing and they had Eager who is almost a duplicate of Thornton but 7 years younger.

Niemi wasn't amazing. He had a 2.63 GAA and a .910 SV% in the playoffs. By comparison Osgood, who you say didn't give Detroit decent goaltending, was at 1.55 and .930.

There's more unanimity in cup winners having, say, a top flight #1 centre or brilliant offensive defenseman, neither of which the Leafs have or Bruins had, than there is in a tough guy or a top quality power forward.

But the reality is there's no unanimity in anything.

 

[Britishbulldog]

Just because Boston won the Cup their way doesn't mean the Leafs should follow their model. There is more than one path to the Cup. There always has been and there always will be. Every year, people come along and say their team needs to be built like the previous Cup winner, and, just about every year, another team comes along and wins the Cup with a different style. There is no blueprint.

I will certainly concede that you can't stereotype anything in life let alone a Stanley Cup team.  I have just noticed that there have been some similarities between Cup winners since the lock out.

Some areas were exceptional which covered other team deficiencies since no one can assemble an awesome team from top to bottom anymore it appears with the Cap.

I was actually Nik seems to either think of lots of stuff in his spare time or is simply a significantly better 'seat of his pants' analyzer than I am I was wondering how he would assemble a Leaf team with what the Leafs currently have. 

Man...I guess I am a real middle of the road guy because I don't think that I could agree that there is a perfect blueprint but I also can't say that I agree that there is no common ingredients  between Cup winners.  :-\

 

[Corn Flake]

So you would rather dissect a losing team?  Chicago had team similar to Boston as well in chemistry.  Besides Detroit what other team didn't have toughness and still won the Cup?

Nice comment though.  Showed intelligence.

Just because Boston won the Cup their way doesn't mean the Leafs should follow their model. There is more than one path to the Cup. There always has been and there always will be. Every year, people come along and say their team needs to be built like the previous Cup winner, and, just about every year, another team comes along and wins the Cup with a different style. There is no blueprint.

For me, instead of trying to become the Bruins, I would study how the Flyers beat them 2 seasons ago and look for what my team might be missing to be able to do the same thing.

Also, Vancouver could have/should have beaten them but they beat themselves due to goalie and character issues.  Its not like a finesse team couldn't beat the big bad Bruins... just a finesse team with a little bit more gusto.

 

[Britishbulldog]

Their goalie was amazing and they had Eager who is almost a duplicate of Thornton but 7 years younger.

Niemi wasn't amazing. He had a 2.63 GAA and a .910 SV% in the playoffs. By comparison Osgood, who you say didn't give Detroit decent goaltending, was at 1.55 and .930.

There's more unanimity in cup winners having, say, a top flight #1 centre or brilliant offensive defenseman, neither of which the Leafs have or Bruins had, than there is in a tough guy or a top quality power forward.

But the reality is there's no unanimity in anything.

Geez...I must be a complex (or messed up) guy in some respects because after saying that I must be middle of the road in my perspectives I see that I am extreme in some other perspectives.  I look at Osgood and feel that his numbers reflect his team's play more than him and I can't shake that (kind of like my disdain for Armstrong).

I just hope that the league (and Leafs) are getting away from the goon and staged fights.  The Leafs might survive with only Brown but at 5'11" he really won't intimidate many teams and their shenanigans like Thornton did with Lapierre, Torres, etc.