Opening Forward Lines

[TML fan]

Id honestly rather have 1 line that can score than 3 completely inept lines at both ends of the ice.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Komarov-Kadri-Kessel
JVR-Bozak-Clarkson
Lupul-Holland-Santorelli
Panik-Winnik-Ashton

I like what you have but I can't see Ashton deserving of a 3rd line spot more than Holland deserving of the promo to the 3rd line.  I am not basing this on just this season but from what I have seen from both of them in other seasons.  I move Santo to wing on the third and Winnik to centre on the 4th line as he has spent time at that position in his career. 

In any case we definitely need to spread out the defensively responsible forwards throughout the lineup.  I am convinced it is the only way to do it with the core group of skilled players we have as none of them have any remnants of a 2 way game.

Yeah, I actually don't mind the look of that. Holland probably hasn't actually really deserved a promotion (although from my post obviously Ashton hasn't either) but I think that could be a good spot for him. I'd worry slightly about that 4th line, mostly because I think Winnik loses a lot of his effectiveness in the middle because he isn't playing along the boards as much and that's his biggest strength.

If I were running things I'd probably waive Frattin to open up room for a Marlies centre. The guy is 26 years old and can't crack a Maple Leafs line-up that has 2 forwards injured. Plus he got a 2-year contract for some reason so I doubt teams will be all that interested. Let him go to the Marlies to get his confidence up and maybe he can rejuvenate his career.

So send down Frattin, call up Smith/Kontiola/Carrick and play them between Winnik and Panik/Ashton.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Leafs lines at practice today:

Lupul-Kadri-Kessel
JVR-Bozak-Clarkson
Winnik-Santorelli-Komarov
Ashton-Holland-Panik-Frattin

Keep in mind, Carlyle is notorious for changing lines at practice only to revert back to normal for a game. But I think in this case we'll probably see these at least to start against Buffalo.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Bozak not with Kessel? That's an option? Are we in bizarro world?

 

[freer]

Leafs lines at practice today:

Lupul-Kadri-Kessel
JVR-Bozak-Clarkson
Winnik-Santorelli-Komarov
Ashton-Holland-Panik-Frattin

Keep in mind, Carlyle is notorious for changing lines at practice only to revert back to normal for a game. But I think in this case we'll probably see these at least to start against Buffalo.

That first line scares the heck out of me defensively.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

That first line scares the heck out of me defensively.

As opposed to what it did with JVR and Bozak? That top line will likely always be a mess in their own end. May as well try to load up offensively and keep them away from the other teams top lines.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Leafs lines at practice today:

Lupul-Kadri-Kessel
JVR-Bozak-Clarkson
Winnik-Santorelli-Komarov
Ashton-Holland-Panik-Frattin

Keep in mind, Carlyle is notorious for changing lines at practice only to revert back to normal for a game. But I think in this case we'll probably see these at least to start against Buffalo.

That first line scares the heck out of me defensively.

Why?  JVR-Bozak-Kessel have been giving up way more chances against than Kadri-Lupul-Winnik have.  At the very least it shouldn't be any worse.

 

[freer]

That first line scares the heck out of me defensively.

As opposed to what it did with JVR and Bozak? That top line will likely always be a mess in their own end. May as well try to load up offensively and keep them away from the other teams top lines.

JVR and bozak are both used on the PK, which in my opinion means they are not as liable defensively. That is based on RC choices. Just saying.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

That first line scares the heck out of me defensively.

As opposed to what it did with JVR and Bozak? That top line will likely always be a mess in their own end. May as well try to load up offensively and keep them away from the other teams top lines.

JVR and bozak are both used on the PK, which in my opinion means they are not as liable defensively. That is based on RC choices. Just saying.

Bozak's only had 5:35 of total PK time this season.  He hasn't been relied on for PK minutes thus far this season.

 

[freer]

That first line scares the heck out of me defensively.

As opposed to what it did with JVR and Bozak? That top line will likely always be a mess in their own end. May as well try to load up offensively and keep them away from the other teams top lines.

JVR and bozak are both used on the PK, which in my opinion means they are not as liable defensively. That is based on RC choices. Just saying.

Bozak's only had 5:35 of total PK time this season.  He hasn't been relied on for PK minutes thus far this season.

How much time does Kadri-Lupul-Kessel. Zero.

 

[Highlander]

Makes me long for the good old days with Kozun was on the PK.

 

[Strangelove]

Leafs lines at practice today:

Lupul-Kadri-Kessel
JVR-Bozak-Clarkson
Winnik-Santorelli-Komarov
Ashton-Holland-Panik-Frattin

Keep in mind, Carlyle is notorious for changing lines at practice only to revert back to normal for a game. But I think in this case we'll probably see these at least to start against Buffalo.

That first line scares the heck out of me defensively.

...because you're worried that they'll be worse than they are now? Getting hemmed in your zone most shifts is already just about as bad as it gets.

With Kadri on the line, I expect they'd spend a lot more time in the offensive end.

 

[Highlander]

Actually when you think about it, we have two guys with very high compete levels injured. Makes me wonder what a healthy Booth and Kozun will bring to the team.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

That first line scares the heck out of me defensively.

As opposed to what it did with JVR and Bozak? That top line will likely always be a mess in their own end. May as well try to load up offensively and keep them away from the other teams top lines.

JVR and bozak are both used on the PK, which in my opinion means they are not as liable defensively. That is based on RC choices. Just saying.

Bozak's only had 5:35 of total PK time this season.  He hasn't been relied on for PK minutes thus far this season.

How much time does Kadri-Lupul-Kessel. Zero.

And yet they don't allow as many chances against.  Maybe playing a structured PK is a bit different from even-strength defensive responsibilities?

 

[bustaheims]

How much time does Kadri-Lupul-Kessel. Zero.

Not quite zero (Kadri has some PK time, though, not a lot), but, that's not the point, either. Bozak is only out there because he's the Leafs' most proficient face-off guy. His role on the PK is to win the face-off and get off the ice as quickly as possible. He's not out there to play a defensive role at all. Neither Kessel nor Lupul take face-offs, so, obviously, they're not going to be used in that role, while Kadri's face-off proficiency is mediocre at best right now.

 

[ZBBM]

That first line scares the heck out of me defensively.

As opposed to what it did with JVR and Bozak? That top line will likely always be a mess in their own end. May as well try to load up offensively and keep them away from the other teams top lines.

See, I think if this is the new top line it's a mistake.  Why not put somebody (other than JVR) who kills penalties up there?  I liked your suggested lines better.

 

[Kin]

See, I think if this is the new top line it's a mistake.  Why not put somebody (other than JVR) who kills penalties up there?  I liked your suggested lines better.

I think the argument would be that the Leafs don't really have a penalty killer who could play on that line while still being pretty effective at converting the sort of chances that being on a line with two super-talented offensive players will inevitably generate for them. I understand the need to get more possession/defense out of the top line but the Leafs aren't such a powerhouse offensively that they can skate someone like Komarov on the top line either.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

See, I think if this is the new top line it's a mistake.  Why not put somebody (other than JVR) who kills penalties up there?  I liked your suggested lines better.

I think that despite what the coaching staff has said during the summer, they'd still prefer to have 2 scoring lines and a checking unit as opposed to 3 scoring lines. Also, will putting one player like Komarov really fix the top lines problems defensively? Probably not. The best way to fix that problem might be trying to get them to play in the offensive zone as much as humanly possible. And so far Kadri and Lupul have been pretty successful in keeping the puck in the right zone this season.

 

[ZBBM]

See, I think if this is the new top line it's a mistake.  Why not put somebody (other than JVR) who kills penalties up there?  I liked your suggested lines better.

I think the argument would be that the Leafs don't really have a penalty killer who could play on that line while still being pretty effective at converting the sort of chances that being on a line with two super-talented offensive players will inevitably generate for them. I understand the need to get more possession/defense out of the top line but the Leafs aren't such a powerhouse offensively that they can skate someone like Komarov on the top line either.

That's a very good point but Komarov is not Jay McClement ? meaning that he at least seems to have some finish, and might be able to play Renberg to Kessel's Sundin.  We won't know until it's tried.

Same response to CTB: Komarov may not fix that line's defensive problems, but he has to make it better, by default.  It's just not tenable to ice a line that can only function on half the ice.

 

[bustaheims]

Same response to CTB: Komarov may not fix that line's defensive problems, but he has to make it better, by default.  It's just not tenable to ice a line that can only function on half the ice.

Well, the real question there is whether or not the added defence provides more than the subtracted offence, and, that's a complicated issue. For a team that, right now, is having trouble finding offence past the top line, scoring is becoming a serious priority.