Possible Phaneuf Extension

[Frank E]

My concern isn't really so much that the cap hit is out of line with what Phaneuf would get paid, but whether the Leafs should pay him that much.

Exactly. It's the Clarkson problem all over again. The issue isn't what the market is, it's whether or not the Leafs can win by paying market prices.

I thought the Clarkson problem was that he's not playing up to the level that the market had expected of him (20-25 goals, good physical play in both offensive and defensive zones)?

That problem is different than paying a guy $7 mil for $7 mil performance...assuming he continues to play like he has this past couple of years.

I meant the Clarkson problem in a theory sense. An inflated market doesn't justify a contract on its own.

I'm not sure the market was inflated as much as he's just underperforming, based on his previous body of work.

 

[Kin]

I'm not sure the market was inflated as much as he's just underperforming, based on his previous body of work.

Well, except given the role that Clarkson was brought into play, that of a 2nd/3rd liner with limited PP time on a second unit, it was probably never reasonable to expect him to produce at a level he did when he was well up over 3 PP minutes a night playing with the likes of Ilya Kovalchuk and Zach Parise.

 

[Frank E]

I'm not sure the market was inflated as much as he's just underperforming, based on his previous body of work.

Well, except given the role that Clarkson was brought into play, that of a 2nd/3rd liner with limited PP time on a second unit, it was probably never reasonable to expect him to produce at a level he did when he was well up over 3 PP minutes a night playing with the likes of Ilya Kovalchuk and Zach Parise.

Perhaps.  But I had thought he was brought in for the top 6, which would have provided him with a better opportunity to be on that PP, assuming he was producing properly.

Raymond seems to have displaced him, given Raymond's unexpected strong play vs. Clarkson's relative underperformance. 

Anyways, this is Phaneuf thread, and I still maintain that the Leafs need a $7 mil defenseman that plays like one....but what he'd yield in a trade is an interesting topic.

 

[moon111]

One of the biggest problems with Toronto is they'll have a B+ player being slotted in a A+ position and then end up paying them A+ money.  How many times have the Leafs been highly paid and losers?  Phaneuf is a top-50 defenseman, but the only thing elite about him might be his ego.

 

[maplesyrup]

Only 50? Really?

 

[Jalili]

Only 50? Really?

I'd have him in my top 20 for sure.

 

[mr grieves]

Talking seriously about extending part of the core at the end of a month where the team's not significantly out-performed the Buffalo Sabres seems... strange.

 

[maplesyrup]

Only 50? Really?

I'd have him in my top 20 for sure.

Yeah, no way he make any top 10 list but I feel he's somewhere in the next 10 for sure.

 

[bustaheims]

I'd have him in my top 20 for sure.

Yeah. I think I'd be hard pressed to come up with 20 guys that I thought were clearly better than Phaneuf. At that point, you're really getting into the area where rankings are becoming much more about preference and bias rather than a difference in overall ability of any real significance.

 

[bustaheims]

Talking seriously about extending part of the core at the end of a month where the team's not significantly out-performed the Buffalo Sabres seems... strange.

I don't love the timing of the signing from an optics/psychological perspective either, but, in the larger scheme of things, I'm not all that concerned about it.

 

[Jalili]

Just for fun...

1-10: Keith, Weber, Suter, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Chara, Subban, McDonagh, Karlsson, Ekman-Larsson

Wouldn't budge on the top ten. But after that...

11-20: Yandle, Bouwmeester, ... and that's where it becomes, like Busta said, more about preference then anything else.

I'd put Phaneuf in the mix with guys like Hedman, E Johnson, Martin, Vlasic, Fowler, Greene, Faulk, Kronwall, but that's a very interchangeable group.

 

[mr grieves]

Talking seriously about extending part of the core at the end of a month where the team's not significantly out-performed the Buffalo Sabres seems... strange.

I don't love the timing of the signing from an optics/psychological perspective either, but, in the larger scheme of things, I'm not all that concerned about it.

Well, if the team keeps playing as it has -- listless, uninspired hockey -- they're out the playoffs by the end of next month. Optics of re-upping the captain of such a mess would be worse then, so I guess it's sensible to get it done now.

 

[TML fan]

The Leafs really didn't have a choice here. He's the best of a bad situation.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

The Leafs really didn't have a choice here. He's the best of a bad situation.

Yup. Where you going to find a top 20 defenseman that won't cost you 7 million, but also maybe an acquisition price too.

I suppose I was underestimating the the market price drive here, but I really thought Phaneuf might take less for an 8th year, but whatever.

 

[mc]

I get a feeling this Leafs team is more and more becoming a country club type of team that Brain Burke so often spoke against.

 

[Deebo]

I think there are 3 options:

1. Sign him long term
2. Trade him before the deadline
3. Keep him until the end of the season and let him sign with another club in unrestricted free agency.

I think signing him long term is the only thing that makes any sense. Signing him to a 7x7 deal doesn't mean he will be here for 7 years. With a rising cap and the ability to retain salary I don't think that contract will make him unmovable unless his play level takes a drastic nose dive. He can always be dealt in the future should the need arise.

I think trading him for what would likely be a rental type return would be a step backwards short and long term as would letting him go in free agency.

 

[jdh1]

2.  Trade him before the deadline.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

One of the biggest problems with Toronto is they'll have a B+ player being slotted in a A+ position and then end up paying them A+ money.  How many times have the Leafs been highly paid and losers?  Phaneuf is a top-50 defenseman, but the only thing elite about him might be his ego.

What has he done that makes him have an "elite" ego to you?

 

[Madferret]

7 X 7 = DO IT

 

[Tigger]

I think the greatest benefit comes in keeping him with some trade flexibility down the road at this point, with the cap rising the Leafs really can't lose barring something really odd happening.