Randy Carlyle/Leaf Coach thread

[bustaheims]

I know sometimes you want to have a hold-over, but I want this staff purged.  And if the scouting staff is so messed up with things like Clarkson assessments, maybe the professional scouting staff should be let go too.

If there's a holdover, it would be Gordon, not Cronin - but, I'd be quite happy to see a clean sweep. Same with the pro scouts. There definitely needs to be some new blood brought in there. Probably with the amateur scouts, too.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I know sometimes you want to have a hold-over, but I want this staff purged.  And if the scouting staff is so messed up with things like Clarkson assessments, maybe the professional scouting staff should be let go too.

If there's a holdover, it would be Gordon, not Cronin - but, I'd be quite happy to see a clean sweep. Same with the pro scouts. There definitely needs to be some new blood brought in there. Probably with the amateur scouts, too.

Just reading some of the 'analytics' guys on Twitter - basically the Leafs were a 48.9% possesion team in Wilson's last year here.  Last season they were 45%, and this season are 43.7%.  It's cratered since Carlyle got here, and as they point out - Leafs at 5 on 5 are around an 8.5 SH% team, and have top 5-6 goaltending.  With 48.9% possession they're likely a pretty good team.  But it's just gone down - Gardiner has gone from 50.3 to 48.6 to 46.1. Phaneuf from 49.8 to 41.7 to 41.3 - despite their competition staying the same.  Clarkson was a good possession player before coming here, goes from 51%, 61.2% to 42.9%.  Grabovski and MacArthur fell under Carlyle and have seen their possession numbers jump back up again.

Bleh.

 

[Bullfrog]

Just not Tortorella. Just not him.

What about any of the assistant coaches? Cronin or Gordon?

Cronin's the guy who's been spouting off the wildly inaccurate scoring chance and time on attack numbers. I'm not sure if that's because he really believes it or because of the way Carlyle has instructed his staff to determine what is and isn't a scoring chance, etc., but, I'd pass on him.

Hard to say. I'm having troubles believing that Cronin actually believes it. If true, that's scary. I don't really know much about Carlyle's assistants though.

 

[lamajama]

The hard thing to judge is how much "final decision" is held by RC over the Assistants.

For all we know they may secretly disagree with RC's coaching decisions. And by that I mean only a few because once RC makes a decision he's not changing it.....defensive system, Orr, 4th line, Phaneuf and Franson on the 1st PP unit etc etc. He's like an old dog that needs the Yeller treatment.

 

[brothert]

I am kinda hoping edmonton fires Eakins so that we can have a Do Over.

 

[Bonsixx]

I am kinda hoping edmonton fires Eakins so that we can have a Do Over.

Really? The guy who benches his best player because he accidentally got sprayed with a few drops of water from a bouncing water bottle?

 

[dappleganger]

I am kinda hoping edmonton fires Eakins so that we can have a Do Over.

Really? The guy who benches his best player because he accidentally got sprayed with a few drops of water from a bouncing water bottle?

I think Eakins has shown he's not the answer behind the bench. Leafs might have dodged a bullet there.

 

[Redleaf]

I'm hoping that fans here don't expect a new coach (any coach) to have any instant impact on the fortunes of this team.

Sorry to be the downer, but that just isn't going to happen, unless Nonis addresses some of the issues on the blueline at the same time he fires Carlyle.

For those that blame everything on Carlyle, do you really think Eakins would have done much better? I think he could have been worse. Perhaps much worse.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I think he could have been worse. Perhaps much worse.

Not really.  As has been said many times, they're on pace to give up some of the most shots on goal in history.  That's not easy to do.  Unless Bernier suddenly forgets how to make saves, how can you get much worse than that?  The Leafs have scored at roughly a similar pace through a couple coaches now, so the team shouldn't have a problem there.  It's not easy to give up this much possession and shots, which is why the Leafs have been historically poor this year.

 

[Captain Canuck]

Well one famous Leafs fan has had enough of Carlyle!

Riddick Bowe tweeted this today: "If the Leafs lose tomorrow im going to knock out Randy Carlyle. One punch between the eyes"

LINK

His tweet about Kerry Fraser is pretty good too: "My heart still hurts of the &itch refs no call on Gretzkys high stick in 93"

;D

 

[Stickytape]

I'm hoping that fans here don't expect a new coach (any coach) to have any instant impact on the fortunes of this team.

Sorry to be the downer, but that just isn't going to happen, unless Nonis addresses some of the issues on the blueline at the same time he fires Carlyle.

For those that blame everything on Carlyle, do you really think Eakins would have done much better? I think he could have been worse. Perhaps much worse.

There are at least a few changes that can happen overnight, like scratching the goons for an actual 4th line, and, you know, actually playing the 4th line for more than 2:30 a game.

Smaller details, like putting Gardiner/Reilly on the 1st PP unit would be nice, too.

But no, I wouldn't expect the whole system to change quickly, or at least I wouldn't expect to see results right away.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

Well one famous Leafs fan has had enough of Carlyle!

Riddick Bowe tweeted this today: "If the Leafs lose tomorrow im going to knock out Randy Carlyle. One punch between the eyes"

LINK

His tweet about Kerry Fraser is pretty good too: "My heart still hurts of the &itch refs no call on Gretzkys high stick in 93"

;D

;D

 

[93forever]

If Carlyle is such a defensive coach how can he explain the goalies facing 40+ shots most games and even when the Leafs had a decent winning record they had a negative GA/GF differential?

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Well one famous Leafs fan has had enough of Carlyle!

Riddick Bowe tweeted this today: "If the Leafs lose tomorrow im going to knock out Randy Carlyle. One punch between the eyes"

LINK

I'd say Bowe pretty much blew any chance of Carlyle recruiting him to play 2 minutes a game on the fourth line.

 

[Kin]

If Carlyle is such a defensive coach how can he explain the goalies facing 40+ shots most games and even when the Leafs had a decent winning record they had a negative GA/GF differential?

The team isn't very good?

 

[drummond]

If Carlyle is such a defensive coach how can he explain the goalies facing 40+ shots most games and even when the Leafs had a decent winning record they had a negative GA/GF differential?

The team isn't very good?

    Asst coach Cronin told players that although Blues outshot Leafs 21-5 in 1st 18 mins, the scoring chances were only 5-3 STL
    ? Mark Masters (@markhmasters) March 27, 2014

This explains everything. The Leafs couching staff somehow believe that being outshot  21-5 is not a big problem if you limit the quality shots. What they do not get is that if opposing team has 21 shots per period it also means that they spent like 15 minutes in offensive zone. It is hard to win games if you spent 75% of game just defending, regardless of the quality of shots against. You can not be constantly hammered in your own end and hope for a breakaway here and there. It may work in isolated game such as Canada vs. Latvia at the Olympics, but no way you can do this over 82 games long season. Needless to say that you put your goalie in extremely difficult position. How can you expect any goalie to survive workload like this. Similarly you force your offensive players to capitalize on few chances they have. It may work for a while, they may have wonderful shooting percentage etc. but they are also only humans. It is simply not sustainable.

This is most idiotic strategy I have seen in almost 30 years of following hockey worldwide. For a while the whole "Fuck Corsi" was fun and I admit that I had fun of those stats people as well. I was wrong. It works in limited number of games (or even in a shortened season) but over the full season it is destined to fall apart sooner or later.

 

[Andy007]

I'm hoping that fans here don't expect a new coach (any coach) to have any instant impact on the fortunes of this team.

Sorry to be the downer, but that just isn't going to happen, unless Nonis addresses some of the issues on the blueline at the same time he fires Carlyle.

For those that blame everything on Carlyle, do you really think Eakins would have done much better? I think he could have been worse. Perhaps much worse.

Or perhaps he'd be better. Or much better. Or the exact same. Who cares, it doesn't change the fact that Carlyle and his staff are absolute stiffs.

But really, the starting goaltender has a .925 save % and the offense seems to score effortlessly in all situations; it'd be difficult for any coach to be worse than Carlyle.

 

[slapshot]

I'm not in favour of firing Carlyle. It let's the players off too easy. Enough of the coaching changes. The players are not executing. It's as simple as that. And, there is not enough overall depth on the team. There is a very promising young core here to build around, which is more than we had just a few years back. There are pieces that still need adding though. A 1-2 defenceman to go with either Gardiner or Rielly on the first pair (whoever matures fastest) and the other to go with Phaneuf on the second pairing. Two or three better forwards, and a back up goalie. I think Bernier will be solid for the future in goal.

I think Nonis made a mistake not picking up one of the available forwards at the deadline, Moulson, Vanek or some of that nature would have been a nice upgrade. At first I was not so sure, given that they would have been rentals, but when I saw how little it took to get them, it would have added another quality player while putting pressure on the rest of this group to perform better. Then, of course, there is always the chance of resigning the guy if he likes Toronto. The downside of not doing anything, is potentially missing the playoffs and how does that help the development of the young guys on this team?

 

[Redleaf]

I'm hoping that fans here don't expect a new coach (any coach) to have any instant impact on the fortunes of this team.

Sorry to be the downer, but that just isn't going to happen, unless Nonis addresses some of the issues on the blueline at the same time he fires Carlyle.

For those that blame everything on Carlyle, do you really think Eakins would have done much better? I think he could have been worse. Perhaps much worse.

Or perhaps he'd be better. Or much better. Or the exact same. Who cares, it doesn't change the fact that Carlyle and his staff are absolute stiffs.

But really, the starting goaltender has a .925 save % and the offense seems to score effortlessly in all situations; it'd be difficult for any coach to be worse than Carlyle.

I love it when people argue that it couldn't get worse than Carlyle. It could absolutely be worse. Carlyle still has a winning record as a coach. What record does Eakins have? What qualifications does Eakins have? How do Maurice and Wilson's record compare?

Some fans just want to make the most simplistic connection to all the problems and throw all the blame one person. On top of that they honestly believe that it couldn't be worse? I get the frustration, but man oh man, if coaching changes solve a teams problems than why do you think they've gone through so many in the past few years? And what makes the next coach the one that will change everything?

 

[Andy007]

I'm hoping that fans here don't expect a new coach (any coach) to have any instant impact on the fortunes of this team.

Sorry to be the downer, but that just isn't going to happen, unless Nonis addresses some of the issues on the blueline at the same time he fires Carlyle.

For those that blame everything on Carlyle, do you really think Eakins would have done much better? I think he could have been worse. Perhaps much worse.

Or perhaps he'd be better. Or much better. Or the exact same. Who cares, it doesn't change the fact that Carlyle and his staff are absolute stiffs.

But really, the starting goaltender has a .925 save % and the offense seems to score effortlessly in all situations; it'd be difficult for any coach to be worse than Carlyle.

I love it when people argue that it couldn't get worse than Carlyle. It could absolutely be worse. Carlyle still has a winning record as a coach. What record does Eakins have? What qualifications does Eakins have? How do Maurice and Wilson's record compare?

Some fans just want to make the most simplistic connection to all the problems and throw all the blame one person.

Are you even reading or understanding what people are saying? How are any of the arguments against Carlyle simplistic? Re-read the thread and see the multitude of examination and analysis about how bad the team has played under Carlyle.

As for Eakins, I said I didn't care about him. I said it could have been worse, much worse, better or much better. Again, are you even reading or understanding what you are quoting? "It's difficult to get worse than Carlyle" is alot different than "it couldn't get any worse."

I'm glad you mentioned Maurice, by the way. His record during his first year in Toronto is better than Carlyle's this year. With .894 save percentage, to boot. So despite a superior team and much, much superior goaltending, Carlyle is going to have trouble matching Maurice.

Ultimately I'm not sure why you have so much trouble with this argument. Because the Leafs have had many coaching changes and have never reached the Cup that means they can't change coaches?