Stay away from the UFA's! How do we improve?

[Erndog]

I don't know if this deserves it's own thread yet, but I've really been thinking about how the Leafs are going to improve themselves this summer and it appears as though it's going to have to come from outside the UFA market.

List of potential July 1st UFA's

That is one UGLY crop.  There are exactly 2 impact UFA's.  Ryan Suter and Zach Parise and while I do believe Burke will make a pitch, I would be absolutely shocked if we signed either one.  Realistically, we aren't getting them.

There are a few decent-to-good 3rd/4th liners who might fit us like:  Daniel Winnik, David Jones, Paul Gaustad, Tarvis Moen and Jay Mclement (please no Jarret Stoll!).  At the end of the day though, these types are usually readily available every summer so I sincerely hope the 3,264 guys we have in the front office don't overextend for any of them. 

Our "prospects" might be better, but what can we realistically expect from a Frattin?  Or a Kadri?  Or a Colborne?  If any of them reach 40 points I think we would all be ecstatic.

We don't really have many trade options either.  Schenn quite possibly... and perhaps one of MacArthur and/or Kulemin.  Again though, what would these guys bring back?  At best we get 1 more top 6 forward.


I'm just left wondering, how do we improve for next year?

 

[drummond]

I'm just left wondering, how do we improve for next year?

Bringing a new coach with a SYSTEM might be enough.

 

[Erndog]

I'm just left wondering, how do we improve for next year?

Bringing a new coach with a SYSTEM might be enough.

I knew someone was going to say that. 

Somehow I don't feel that a new coach will vault a team from bottom 6-7 into the upper echelon.

Although, having said that, I'm a huge Indiana Pacers fan and last year with Jim O'Brien as head coach EVERYONE knew he was killing us... just destroying the team.  We were 17-27 with him.  They hired Frank Vogel and went 20-17 the rest of the way.

This year they made 2 good depth acquisitions in the summer and are 22-12 with Vogel at the helm.


So yes, I can see how sometimes a coaching change coupled with a couple good moves is all that is needed.  I've seen it first hand.

 

[rdowdall]

I think they need to make an upgrade in goal.  Somehow, they need to get stronger at this position.  A good goalie can cover up a lot of warts.  I'm not saying that Gus, or Reimer can't be the goalie, but I have a feeling that they aren't. 

 

[bustaheims]

There are a few decent-to-good 3rd/4th liners who might fit us like:  Daniel Winnik, David Jones, Paul Gaustad, Tarvis Moen and Jay Mclement (please no Jarret Stoll!).  At the end of the day though, these types are usually readily available every summer so I sincerely hope the 3,264 guys we have in the front office don't overextend for any of them. 

The thing is, these are exactly the type of players the Leafs need. Right now, offensive talent isn't a problem for the team. - they currently sit 8th in the league in goals per game. As much as it would be nice to add Parise, he doesn't really fit the Leafs' needs (and, yes, I recognize he's more talented than almost all the Leafs forwards). The Leafs need physical, defensively responsible guys to fill out the line-up. They need guys who play smarter in their own end. That's how they're going to improve - guys who are more committed to defence, so that the offence can flourish, the goaltenders don't have to stand on their heads and their defencemen aren't left hanging out to dry.

 

[Corn Flake]

Outside of Suter and Parise topping the wish list.... I would be all about looking for guys who can be leaders on this team and help the kids.  I think its the biggest problem on the team right now. A true veteran leader at all positions.. forward, defense and goal.  The kids need help, Phaneuf needs help leading and it would have taken onus off the coaches. You can't have Alt captains not on the ice every game, especially when those two are expected to be your veteran leadership.  We know Komi has to be done.  Armstrong shouldn't be but something is up there.

So:

1. Veteran forward who can lead, contribute and isn't a reclaim project

Top choice: Shane Doan.
Alts: Ray Whitney, Jamie Langenbrunner, Travis Moen.

2. veteran d-man who leads but quietly does his job well.

Top choice: Brad Stuart. 
Alts: Adrian Aucoin, Sean O'Donnell, Scott Hannan, Colin White.

3. veteran backup goalie, capable of playing 40 games at least but who isn't going to get all pissy if he doesn't play that much.

Top choice: Martin Biron (I would go big on him to make it happen)
Alts: Johan Hedberg, Curtis Sanford, Chris Mason, Nabokov.

Other ideas:

-  Greg Campbell... lots of 4th line sandpaper and two-way game.  Upgrade on right side. 

- Jim Slater .. same as Campbell.

- Shawn Thornton.. a great current day enforcer who can play a bit, distracts the heck out of the other team and knows how to get his team going. I could see Burke going hard after him because he fits the bill of a fighter who isn't useless if he's not fighting.

I think the Leafs would sacrifice some youthful enthusiasm and legs by going with the above but they need balance and far more leadership laced into the lineup.  The ideas above I think would do that. 

 

[Erndog]

There are a few decent-to-good 3rd/4th liners who might fit us like:  Daniel Winnik, David Jones, Paul Gaustad, Tarvis Moen and Jay Mclement (please no Jarret Stoll!).  At the end of the day though, these types are usually readily available every summer so I sincerely hope the 3,264 guys we have in the front office don't overextend for any of them. 

The thing is, these are exactly the type of players the Leafs need. Right now, offensive talent isn't a problem for the team. - they currently sit 8th in the league in goals per game. As much as it would be nice to add Parise, he doesn't really fit the Leafs' needs (and, yes, I recognize he's more talented than almost all the Leafs forwards). The Leafs need physical, defensively responsible guys to fill out the line-up. They need guys who play smarter in their own end. That's how they're going to improve - guys who are more committed to defence, so that the offence can flourish, the goaltenders don't have to stand on their heads and their defencemen aren't left hanging out to dry.

I don't disagree.  I just don't want them to overextend.  Those 3-4 years, at $3M+ type deals.  Especially for 3rd/4th liners.

I'll also add that we've tried this a bit already.  Brown, Steckal, Dupuis and Armstrong were all brought in for this exact reason.  Bottom 6 forwards, with some grit, defensive responsibility, etc and it hasn't worked out very well.

I wouldn't say "we need more bottom 6 guys!".... because quite frankly, we just need better players in general at almost every position.

 

[Erndog]

Corn Flake, Shawn Thornton is actually 1 guy I would very much like and someone who I've thought of signing in my head several times I dont know why I ommitted him.  For 2-3 years he would be a real good addition to the 4th line as long as he comes in at $1.5M or less.  He would be toughness, leadership, and like you said, he can contribute even when he's not fighting.  He's basically a Chris Neil type.  They are useful to have for sure and I think the young guys would really like to have him around.

 

[jonlleafs]

I think they need to make an upgrade in goal.  Somehow, they need to get stronger at this position.  A good goalie can cover up a lot of warts.  I'm not saying that Gus, or Reimer can't be the goalie, but I have a feeling that they aren't.

Gus is a different story, but I've seen it too many times even with our own players that Reimer is going through the sophomore jinx.  Bozak, Grabovski, Schenn, Gunnarsson.  They all went through it and Reimer is going through it.  So, unless he's mentally ruined, I think he can still be a good goalie.  Would I like to upgrade?  Perhaps, but who can we get?

 

[avatarx51]

- Spend anything and everything to get a real #1 goalie.
- Replace Wilson ASAP
- Get a #1 center.

 

[Bullfrog]

Top choice: Martin Biron (I would go big on him to make it happen)
Alts: Johan Hedberg, Curtis Sanford, Chris Mason, Nabokov.

100% agreed on Biron.

 

[Erndog]

Top choice: Martin Biron (I would go big on him to make it happen)
Alts: Johan Hedberg, Curtis Sanford, Chris Mason, Nabokov.

100% agreed on Biron.

What I said about Biron back in November

I know I am getting ahead of myself but Martin Biron is a free agent this summer.  He will have just turned 35 so he would probably be a perfect compliment/backup.  Heck he could probably even push Reimer for the starting job.
Either way, he probably won't be too expensive, has a career 911 SV%, and can handle a hefty workload if need be.  We won't have to marry him to a long term deal either.  I think 2 years would probably be very good for both sides.

I think it's clear that Gus is starting to run out of track here.  Still a lot of hockey left and a lot can happen but right now, I'm hoping Biron makes it to free agency and we make a move for him.

 

[Andy007]

That ufa list is pretty brutal.

Personally I think a coaching change and an upgrade in goal will do wonders for this team.

Now if Burke can also find a way to add Nash and Van Reimsdyk so the forward lines actually have a bit of grit to them, we may be in business.

 

[Corn Flake]

Can everyone who wants to talk about the coaching change do so in the appropriate thread? 

Seriously.

 

[Andy007]

Can everyone who wants to talk about the coaching change do so in the appropriate thread? 

Seriously.

Actually it's relevant to the topic of this thread. Thanks for your advice though.

 

[Corn Flake]

Top choice: Martin Biron (I would go big on him to make it happen)
Alts: Johan Hedberg, Curtis Sanford, Chris Mason, Nabokov.

100% agreed on Biron.

What I said about Biron back in November

I know I am getting ahead of myself but Martin Biron is a free agent this summer.  He will have just turned 35 so he would probably be a perfect compliment/backup.  Heck he could probably even push Reimer for the starting job.
Either way, he probably won't be too expensive, has a career 911 SV%, and can handle a hefty workload if need be.  We won't have to marry him to a long term deal either.  I think 2 years would probably be very good for both sides.

I think it's clear that Gus is starting to run out of track here.  Still a lot of hockey left and a lot can happen but right now, I'm hoping Biron makes it to free agency and we make a move for him.

Yeah yeah you win the Biron nomination request timing. But didn't you want a trade for him back then? 

Biron strikes me as the veteran guy who would be happy as a backup and might make the move because behind Lundqvist he barely ever plays, and if he got the chance to play more he would be thrilled, and more than capable of playing more if it came to it. 

I don't think Reimer should be given up on (THE SKY IS FALLING!) but he needs a very strong insurance policy right behind him, and Biron sure fits the bill. 

Gus needs to be given a chance somewhere else, probably as a backup behind a proven veteran #1..

 

[Corn Flake]

Can everyone who wants to talk about the coaching change do so in the appropriate thread? 

Seriously.

Actually it's relevant to the topic of this thread. Thanks for your advice though.

It really isn't if you read the first post and the attempt to look at the roster via UFA and trades, prospects etc, but I know you and a few others can't help but bring it up in every thread and post.  Try real hard.

 

[Erndog]

Top choice: Martin Biron (I would go big on him to make it happen)
Alts: Johan Hedberg, Curtis Sanford, Chris Mason, Nabokov.

100% agreed on Biron.

What I said about Biron back in November

I know I am getting ahead of myself but Martin Biron is a free agent this summer.  He will have just turned 35 so he would probably be a perfect compliment/backup.  Heck he could probably even push Reimer for the starting job.
Either way, he probably won't be too expensive, has a career 911 SV%, and can handle a hefty workload if need be.  We won't have to marry him to a long term deal either.  I think 2 years would probably be very good for both sides.

I think it's clear that Gus is starting to run out of track here.  Still a lot of hockey left and a lot can happen but right now, I'm hoping Biron makes it to free agency and we make a move for him.

Yeah yeah you win the Biron nomination request timing. But didn't you want a trade for him back then? 

Biron strikes me as the veteran guy who would be happy as a backup and might make the move because behind Lundqvist he barely ever plays, and if he got the chance to play more he would be thrilled, and more than capable of playing more if it came to it. 

I don't think Reimer should be given up on (THE SKY IS FALLING!) but he needs a very strong insurance policy right behind him, and Biron sure fits the bill. 

Gus needs to be given a chance somewhere else, probably as a backup behind a proven veteran #1..

I said I hope he makes it to free agency and we make a move for him.  See bolded

But yes, I'm in agreement with you 100%.  Honestly, would anyone be shocked if he turned out to be the starter?  If he played 55-60 games next year I don't think that would surprise anyone. 

He's certainly a capable goalie.  An excellent insurance policy.  A guy who's started before, could probably start again, wouldn't complain either way, and won't break the bank.  I'm pretty sure he's well liked by his teammates as well.

I know Josh Harding might have the more upside but Biron would probably be safer.  Either way, I'm in the camp to sign one of these 2.

 

[Corn Flake]

He's certainly a capable goalie.  An excellent insurance policy.  A guy who's started before, could probably start again, wouldn't complain either way, and won't break the bank.

I know Josh Harding might have the more upside but Biron would probably be safer.  Either way, I'm in the camp to sign one of these 2.

I'd rather leave the "upside" to Remier and the other promising kids we have in the system.  At least one of the goalies in the franchise needs to be a stabilizing force.

A Biron/Reimer 50/50 approach to start the year out, with Biron able to take over the bulk if need be would bring me much inner peace. I think it would bring the whole team the same thing as well.

 

[Andy007]

Can everyone who wants to talk about the coaching change do so in the appropriate thread? 

Seriously.

Actually it's relevant to the topic of this thread. Thanks for your advice though.

It really isn't if you read the first post and the attempt to look at the roster via UFA and trades, prospects etc, but I know you and a few others can't help but bring it up in every thread and post.  Try real hard.

This is the first time I have ever mentioned a coaching change in ANY thread. And it is absolutely part of this thread regardless of your crazy notion that it isn't. Why don't you 'try real hard' and grab yourself a clue.