Steve Stamkos?

[ZBBM]

I don't care what state the team is in,  if you don't go for Stamkos then you're insane.

I clearly need some more perspective on this. Isn't it a concern to anyone that his play on the ice over the last few seasons doesn't look anything like a franchise/$10M+ player?

You look at players like Ovechkin/Tavares/Benn etc etc - and look at how they can dominate a game - Stamkos hasn't had that ability in what seems like an awful long time.

I readily admit I haven't followed him super closely but yes, I think this could be a concern.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I don't care what state the team is in,  if you don't go for Stamkos then you're insane.

I clearly need some more perspective on this. Isn't it a concern to anyone that his play on the ice over the last few seasons doesn't look anything like a franchise/$10M+ player?

You look at players like Ovechkin/Tavares/Benn etc etc - and look at how they can dominate a game - Stamkos hasn't had that ability in what seems like an awful long time.

Weren't people questioning whether Ovechkin was still at the highest level for a couple seasons there too?  I think it's very unlikely he's not one of the best players in the league going forward.

 

[Frank E]

I don't care what state the team is in,  if you don't go for Stamkos then you're insane.

I clearly need some more perspective on this. Isn't it a concern to anyone that his play on the ice over the last few seasons doesn't look anything like a franchise/$10M+ player?

You look at players like Ovechkin/Tavares/Benn etc etc - and look at how they can dominate a game - Stamkos hasn't had that ability in what seems like an awful long time.

Weren't people questioning whether Ovechkin was still at the highest level for a couple seasons there too?  I think it's very unlikely he's not one of the best players in the league going forward.

#TeamStamkos

 

[Frank E]

I would figure, as has been mentioned, that Stamkos would prefer an 8 year deal vs. a 7 year deal.

So if Tampa wants to keep him for this playoff run, they'll likely market his rights at the end of the season.  This is assuming of course that Tampa can't sign him and he wants to explore the market.

Those rights become pretty damn valuable to the Stamkos suitors.  Is there much of a precedent for determining a value of what that would cost the Leafs in June? 

 

[nutman]

As someone who has been following the farm system very close, (due to the suck the Buds are right now) I think anyone who thinks we are years off of being a  good team had better rethink themselves.
We have stocked up our system so well that we will have players coming the next two seasons faster than we can dump the ones we have here now.

I think we will see even as early as next season, a team that will be much better then we could even dream of. I will say that two seasons from now the Leafs will be well on there way up the latter.
As for Stamkos, I would sign him, as long as we don't spend anything for him, it would go a long ways to have him playing on a top line with JVR and ? to take any pressure off the incoming stars over the next two years.

I think this team is on a faster track then most think.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

I don't care what state the team is in,  if you don't go for Stamkos then you're insane.

I clearly need some more perspective on this. Isn't it a concern to anyone that his play on the ice over the last few seasons doesn't look anything like a franchise/$10M+ player?

You look at players like Ovechkin/Tavares/Benn etc etc - and look at how they can dominate a game - Stamkos hasn't had that ability in what seems like an awful long time.

Weren't people questioning whether Ovechkin was still at the highest level for a couple seasons there too?  I think it's very unlikely he's not one of the best players in the league going forward.

I wrote this same post earlier and somehow deleted it. Ovechkin took all sorts of crap from the media a couple of seasons ago. He's a coach killer, it's no contest now between him and Crosby, he's a quitter, Washington can't win with him. Now the same guys are fawning over him, and going on about how he may be the greatest player ever. You could start to hear the same narrative with Crosby this season, up until recently.

Personally, I would love to see what sort of player Stamkos is under Babcock. I'm guessing he would be pretty good.

 

[McGarnagle]

Well, I hope you guys are right, and he signs, and we have something to really look forward to watching in the short term.

But based on my eyeballs having watched a lot of Lightning games over the last couple seasons, I don't think this is the "max term, max cap, +NTC" no-brainer some are making it out to be. I see him as a PP specialist, and not particularly dominant at 5-5.

 

[Kin]

Are you referring to Kessel? How is a trade and a Ufa comparable?

Because what made the Kessel trade a bad one isn't that Kessel wasn't a good player, it's where the rest of the team was talent wise.

 

[Bender]

Are you referring to Kessel? How is a trade and a Ufa comparable?

Because what made the Kessel trade a bad one isn't that Kessel wasn't a good player, it's where the rest of the team was talent wise.

Exactly what my original post meant! Thanks!

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Are you referring to Kessel? How is a trade and a Ufa comparable?

Because what made the Kessel trade a bad one isn't that Kessel wasn't a good player, it's where the rest of the team was talent wise.

Exactly what my original post meant! Thanks!

It's also pretty easy to see though that the team is in a much different position than they were when the Kessel trade happened though.

 

[Kin]

It's also pretty easy to see though that the team is in a much different position than they were when the Kessel trade happened though.

Not really. They have a better prospect base now than they did then but at both times they were in need of patience with a rebuild that very well might take three or four years. Going out and signing top tier free agents isn't usually synonymous with being patient with a rebuild even if you can sell him on not caring about being on a good team for multiple years.

 

[Frank E]

It's also pretty easy to see though that the team is in a much different position than they were when the Kessel trade happened though.

Not really. They have a better prospect base now than they did then but at both times they were in need of patience with a rebuild that very well might take three or four years. Going out and signing top tier free agents isn't usually synonymous with being patient with a rebuild even if you can sell him on not caring about being on a good team for multiple years.

What did Burke and Nonis do that showed impatience?

 

[Bender]

It's also pretty easy to see though that the team is in a much different position than they were when the Kessel trade happened though.

Not really. They have a better prospect base now than they did then but at both times they were in need of patience with a rebuild that very well might take three or four years. Going out and signing top tier free agents isn't usually synonymous with being patient with a rebuild even if you can sell him on not caring about being on a good team for multiple years.

I agree with this! I mean their base isn't that good. They have a lot of work to do and who's to say Stamkos doesn't move us into a place of mediocrity. I don't care getting into the second round, which I think will happen.

How about this: Can someone give a five year projection on if we signed Stamkos?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Not really. They have a better prospect base now than they did then but at both times they were in need of patience with a rebuild that very well might take three or four years. Going out and signing top tier free agents isn't usually synonymous with being patient with a rebuild even if you can sell him on not caring about being on a good team for multiple years.

I'll admit in a perfect world Stamkos would have been a UFA in 2017 (or at worse 2018) instead, but he isn't. So that goes back to Joe's point, if the team feels like they need a Stamkos-player soon then you need to take advantage of this opportunity because his caliber of player becoming a UFA happens once every 10 years probably.

And the problem with Burke wasn't just the Kessel trade, it was what his plan for the team was after that. As long as the Stamkos signing doesn't derail Shanny's long-term plan then it won't do the team harm.

 

[Kin]

What did Burke and Nonis do that showed impatience?

You mean aside from making "not rebuilding" part of the mission statement? Well, there's the Kessel trade, the Phaneuf trade, the Komisarek and Beauchemin signings...

 

[bustaheims]

Not really. They have a better prospect base now than they did then but at both times they were in need of patience with a rebuild that very well might take three or four years. Going out and signing top tier free agents isn't usually synonymous with being patient with a rebuild even if you can sell him on not caring about being on a good team for multiple years.

Yeah. That's kind of what I'm on the fence on Stamkos (though, I don't think he'll sign here any way). On one hand, how often do you get the opportunity to add a Stamkos level player as a free agent? On the other hand, the Leafs are still missing a number of essential pieces, and they still need another couple seasons near the bottom of the league, collecting picks and prospects to fill the gaps or provide assets to trade to fill them without emptying out the cupboard.

 

[Bender]

It's also pretty easy to see though that the team is in a much different position than they were when the Kessel trade happened though.

Not really. They have a better prospect base now than they did then but at both times they were in need of patience with a rebuild that very well might take three or four years. Going out and signing top tier free agents isn't usually synonymous with being patient with a rebuild even if you can sell him on not caring about being on a good team for multiple years.

What did Burke and Nonis do that showed impatience?

Sarcasm?

 

[Bender]

Not really. They have a better prospect base now than they did then but at both times they were in need of patience with a rebuild that very well might take three or four years. Going out and signing top tier free agents isn't usually synonymous with being patient with a rebuild even if you can sell him on not caring about being on a good team for multiple years.

Yeah. That's kind of what I'm on the fence on Stamkos (though, I don't think he'll sign here any way). On one hand, how often do you get the opportunity to add a Stamkos level player as a free agent? On the other hand, the Leafs are still missing a number of essential pieces, and they still need another couple seasons near the bottom of the league, collecting picks and prospects to fill the gaps or provide assets to trade to fill them without emptying out the cupboard.

This. A hundred times this.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Yeah. That's kind of what I'm on the fence on Stamkos (though, I don't think he'll sign here any way). On one hand, how often do you get the opportunity to add a Stamkos level player as a free agent? On the other hand, the Leafs are still missing a number of essential pieces, and they still need another couple seasons near the bottom of the league, collecting picks and prospects to fill the gaps or provide assets to trade to fill them without emptying out the cupboard.

I think, at worst, without Stamkos we have 1 more season of bottom-5 hockey in us. I don't personally believe that, but it's definitely possible yeah. So you touch on the question yourself but the big one is do you go forward with a bottom-5 pick in 2017 (which isn't exactly looking to be an amazing draft at this point if that means anything) without a Steven Stamkos for another 6 seasons or a 1st round draft pick somewhere in the mid-to-late teens probably with a Steven Stamkos for another 6 seasons?

 

[Kin]

I'll admit in a perfect world Stamkos would have been a UFA in 2017 (or at worse 2018) instead, but he isn't. So that goes back to Joe's point, if the team feels like they need a Stamkos-player soon then you need to take advantage of this opportunity because his caliber of player becoming a UFA happens once every 10 years probably.

Well, ok, but I think that's part of my point. If this team feels they "need" anything "soon" then it's a pretty solid indication of some level of impatience with what should be a long process.

And, look, we've disagreed on how far away they are before but just for a second let's say that they sign Stamkos. Do you know for certain how he'd react if, after two bad years, Alex Pietrangelo is all of a sudden available for Rielly and a first and the team passes? Or if they don't wade into the free agent market in an attempt to get better quicker? What happens to the plan if they stumble a bit with the rebuild and all of a sudden they have an impatient, unhappy Stamkos making 12 million a year?

I'm not all the way pro or anti signing Stamkos but I don't think not signing him, or just not trying to, is inexplicable.