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The Brian Burke Thread

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McPwnage

McPwnage

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We used to have this before the forums went down so right now is a good time to bring it back.  Post all Brian Burke related media in here, for starters thoughts on Burke's outburst at the NHL today. 

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=384292

my take is somebody call a waahhhhmbulance, burke is crying because he wants the game played trukulantly when the game is evolving out of that and he is going along with it because he has to. An enforcer is no longer nessecary, a pest maybe we have Armstrong when he isn't spending the entire year on the IR. As for accountability players stick up for each other all the time. Seriously disapointed in burke for these comments
 
There's people I know who believe rules/laws will protect them.  It works until someone comes along that doesn't believe that.  I wouldn't hesitate to ice a guy who'll make more money being in the NHL with a suspension then on the farm.  He takes out the right player, your team might make the lucrative playoffs.  The fines will have to be the equivalent to the player's yearly salary plus a life-time ban from the NHL. 
 
Significantly Insignificant said:
Who would you rather have in the league?  Steve Downie or Colton Orr?
Click to expand...

I hate Steve Downie's antics with a passion, but to me there is no question that I would rather have Downie than Orr in the NHL.

Downie has a 22 goal season under his belt and is headed toward his 3rd season with 10+ goals in a row.  He also has 112 points in 232 games so he's barely under .5 PPG.  And he's still 24 so he has the ability to mature a bit more and be less of a tool. 

You don't hear people complain much about Matt Cooke anymore and he was an idiot on the ice. 

Colton Orr wins the nice guy competition 100/100 times, but he's a guy who played 378 games and has 20 career points.  He's not a hockey player, he's a fighter who was a liability if playing more than 5 minutes a night.  I'm sorry that Burke is still upset that he had a hard time setting up his fight club with Kevin Lowe but we don't need staged fighters, you just need to have your 3rd/4th liners be willing to drop the gloves.  That's something that Boyce can/has done and for all the talk of Burke having Dupuis instead of Boyce, to me, the bigger thing is that Boyce could have been the 13th forward and actually been inserted in the lineup to change up the 3rd/4th line right from the get-go if they weren't keeping a liability who didn't really offer any positive hockey benefit.

The thing about guys like Downie is that he doesn't drop the gloves with heavyweights and he actually plays a regular shift, so it isn't like you can throw out your liability tough-guy to face off against him every shift.
 
L K said:
Significantly Insignificant said:
Who would you rather have in the league?  Steve Downie or Colton Orr?
Click to expand...

I hate Steve Downie's antics with a passion, but to me there is no question that I would rather have Downie than Orr in the NHL.

Downie has a 22 goal season under his belt and is headed toward his 3rd season with 10+ goals in a row.  He also has 112 points in 232 games so he's barely under .5 PPG.  And he's still 24 so he has the ability to mature a bit more and be less of a tool. 

You don't hear people complain much about Matt Cooke anymore and he was an idiot on the ice. 

Colton Orr wins the nice guy competition 100/100 times, but he's a guy who played 378 games and has 20 career points.  He's not a hockey player, he's a fighter who was a liability if playing more than 5 minutes a night.  I'm sorry that Burke is still upset that he had a hard time setting up his fight club with Kevin Lowe but we don't need staged fighters, you just need to have your 3rd/4th liners be willing to drop the gloves.  That's something that Boyce can/has done and for all the talk of Burke having Dupuis instead of Boyce, to me, the bigger thing is that Boyce could have been the 13th forward and actually been inserted in the lineup to change up the 3rd/4th line right from the get-go if they weren't keeping a liability who didn't really offer any positive hockey benefit.

The thing about guys like Downie is that he doesn't drop the gloves with heavyweights and he actually plays a regular shift, so it isn't like you can throw out your liability tough-guy to face off against him every shift.
Click to expand...

What about the liability factor of the guy could do something crazy and get himself suspended for 10 games+?  What if he does something stupid in the playoffs and inspires the other team to win a series ( I'm looking at you Tie Domi ).
 
Significantly Insignificant said:
What about the liability factor of the guy could do something crazy and get himself suspended for 10 games+?
Click to expand...

It doesn't outweigh the actual ability to play hockey but, even if it did, like you say the only time it happened to the Leafs it was the team's fourth line goon who was to blame.
 
moon111 said:
There's people I know who believe rules/laws will protect them.  It works until someone comes along that doesn't believe that.  I wouldn't hesitate to ice a guy who'll make more money being in the NHL with a suspension then on the farm.  He takes out the right player, your team might make the lucrative playoffs.  The fines will have to be the equivalent to the player's yearly salary plus a life-time ban from the NHL.
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think your argument is that:  in general, it is no problem to find a guy willing to take a suspension and take out a star player on the other team, but it is impossible to find a guy to do so if there is an enforcer on the other team's roster.  In other words, you are suggesting that ALL (potentially dirty) NHL players are so afraid of the other teams' enforcers that teams cannot find ANY courageous such player to take a run at a star.  But the moment enforcers are removed, finding players to take runs at stars will be easy.

I just cannot believe that is true.  I generally believe there are many, many NHL players who are pretty courageous.  I also believe there are lots of players who may be slightly less courageous, but know that they know how to dodge a fight with an enforcer by turtling.  I mean can't we all point out a huge number of "irritating" players who regularly dodge fights all the time but continue being irritants?

The position that the 5-minute-a-game enforcer is the primary defensive shell that prevents catastrophic violence against star players seems like a completely indefensible position.  When you start to think carefully about it, I just don't see how to come up with an argument that the "enforcer" provides the kind of protection claimed.
 
moon111 said:
There's people I know who believe rules/laws will protect them.  It works until someone comes along that doesn't believe that.  I wouldn't hesitate to ice a guy who'll make more money being in the NHL with a suspension then on the farm.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that suspended players don't get paid at all.
 
Saint Nik said:
moon111 said:
There's people I know who believe rules/laws will protect them.  It works until someone comes along that doesn't believe that.  I wouldn't hesitate to ice a guy who'll make more money being in the NHL with a suspension then on the farm.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that suspended players don't get paid at all.
Click to expand...

Also, that's kind of like saying, hey, people commit crimes in public, if they do, every civilian is entitled to shoot them.

I think people need to go take a look at the 70s and see what that good "clean" self-policing hockey was.  People were getting two-handed slashed all over the place.  Every other hit was directly to head.  The only difference between now and then is that a guy isn't allowed to skate across the ice, jump you from behind and beat the living snot out of you in retaliation.
 
McPwnage said:
We used to have this before the forums went down so right now is a good time to bring it back.  Post all Brian Burke related media in here, for starters thoughts on Burke's outburst at the NHL today. 

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=384292

my take is somebody call a waahhhhmbulance, burke is crying because he wants the game played trukulantly when the game is evolving out of that and he is going along with it because he has to. An enforcer is no longer nessecary, a pest maybe we have Armstrong when he isn't spending the entire year on the IR. As for accountability players stick up for each other all the time. Seriously disapointed in burke for these comments
Click to expand...

I wasn't disappointed at all in his comments.  The players once policed themselves - something like a player on a team telling the players on the other team to knock off their idiocy on the ice or they were going after that team's top player. 

There has always been physicality in hockey, but back in the day, the intent to severely injure another player was not as much as it is today.  It did happen, but not as much.  Today we see cheap shots on players and a lack of respect from some players towards other players that is resulting in more players being sidelined with concussions or other injuries.  The idiots who cause injury to other players forget that it could happen to them. 

 
Saint Nik said:
Significantly Insignificant said:
What about the liability factor of the guy could do something crazy and get himself suspended for 10 games+?
Click to expand...

It doesn't outweigh the actual ability to play hockey but, even if it did, like you say the only time it happened to the Leafs it was the team's fourth line goon who was to blame.
Click to expand...

It does in my mind.  Having someone out there that is willing to injure someone on purpose when they are in a vulnerable position, regardless of the consequences, should not get a free pass just because they can skate, shoot and pass a puck.  And in some people's minds, Domi was more than a fourth line goon.  He would be closer to Downie than he would Orr.

If what this guy does is so important how is it that he can be absent for 10 games and it would have no impact on his team?
 
I've been reading with interest the great posts and opinions in this thread.

Personally I think the era of the "goon" is over and has been over for a number of years - mostly due to the staged-fighting. When it has
been "old-school" like Belak vs Cam Jansen (I think) for the Kaberle hit
you could maybe say that it made some sense. But having 2 guys scrap
for no reason is just stupid - in my opinion. The NHL hasn't had any "goons" instigating fights with Downie-type players on a "regular basis" for years, again in IMO - otherwise Alex Burrows would be toast
by now.

I also think that many of these Downie-type players will gladly fill that role not only because they have lesser talent but because of the huge paycheques involved now. A few seasons can give them a great leap in life.
 
I was thinking of making Brian Burke sayings into a meme for example:
burke2.jpg


 
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