The Official 2011/2012 Armchair GM thread

[Corn Flake]

Again, I don't find it likely, but it's something worth keeping an eye on.  It sort of, ever so slightly reminds me of when Phaneuf started being run out of town in Calgary when his play dropped off (I know their was some locker room stuff also).  And yes, I realize that #1 centers don't grow on trees and are rarely moved, however if there was EVER a time since he was drafted that Staal might be moved, I would guess the chances now are the best they've ever been.

If the Leafs could get him in a Phaneuf type deal, I'd be all over it, but, with the Canes likely looking for fair value for him based on how he's played in the past (which, right now, is still justifiable), the cost likely outweighs the benefit.

Agreed, but the 'Canes penchant for acquiring former Leafs players gets the mind humming.

Staal has been really, really bad this year, but I would guess a guy named Colborne would have to be included in any trade like that.

 

[Erndog]

Again, I don't find it likely, but it's something worth keeping an eye on.  It sort of, ever so slightly reminds me of when Phaneuf started being run out of town in Calgary when his play dropped off (I know their was some locker room stuff also).  And yes, I realize that #1 centers don't grow on trees and are rarely moved, however if there was EVER a time since he was drafted that Staal might be moved, I would guess the chances now are the best they've ever been.

If the Leafs could get him in a Phaneuf type deal, I'd be all over it, but, with the Canes likely looking for fair value for him based on how he's played in the past (which, right now, is still justifiable), the cost likely outweighs the benefit.

Agreed, but the 'Canes penchant for acquiring former Leafs players gets the mind humming.

Staal has been really, really bad this year, but I would guess a guy named Colborne would have to be included in any trade like that.

And Connolly based on salary and replacing a center.  Probably a "young", NHL ready d-man also.

Like Busta, if we can do this with the ol' 4 quarters for a dollar type move, it would certainly be worth looking at.  Carolina is also in the position where they need help *everywhere* (like Calgary was in the Phaneuf deal) so they might be willing to move 1 for 3-4? 

I don't know, probably dreaming here but Staal IS on pace for his 4th straight year around 70-75 points (actually on pace for a lot worse).  He's making $8.25M.  I don't think it's entirely out of the realm of poissibilities they entertain offers.

 

[The Red Polar Bear]

Staal? But what will the Kessel dynamic be like if his centre is the guy who forced him to the last pick overall in the all-star draft!?!?

;D

 

[Corn Flake]

Like Busta, if we can do this with the ol' 4 quarters for a dollar type move, it would certainly be worth looking at.  Carolina is also in the position where they need help *everywhere* (like Calgary was in the Phaneuf deal) so they might be willing to move 1 for 3-4? 

I don't know, probably dreaming here but Staal IS on pace for his 4th straight year around 70-75 points (actually on pace for a lot worse).  He's making $8.25M.  I don't think it's entirely out of the realm of poissibilities they entertain offers.

I think the 4 quarters for a dollar idea could happen - usually how these trades go - but they will be 4 of our better quarters vs the sticky ones at the bottom of the cup holder we used to get Phaneuf.

70-75 pts?  Staal is on pace for 28 points by NHL.com and TSN's count.  He's also a -16 already.  MINUS SIXTEEN!!  We are talking about Eric, right?

I agree though... if there was ever a chance to get him, this could be it.

As for the 4(3) quarters... Schenn + Connolly + Kadri for Staal + prospet (or something)  Wudja?

 

[Redleaf]

Like Busta, if we can do this with the ol' 4 quarters for a dollar type move, it would certainly be worth looking at.  Carolina is also in the position where they need help *everywhere* (like Calgary was in the Phaneuf deal) so they might be willing to move 1 for 3-4? 

I don't know, probably dreaming here but Staal IS on pace for his 4th straight year around 70-75 points (actually on pace for a lot worse).  He's making $8.25M.  I don't think it's entirely out of the realm of poissibilities they entertain offers.

I think the 4 quarters for a dollar idea could happen - usually how these trades go - but they will be 4 of our better quarters vs the sticky ones at the bottom of the cup holder we used to get Phaneuf.

70-75 pts?  Staal is on pace for 28 points by NHL.com and TSN's count.  He's also a -16 already.  MINUS SIXTEEN!!  We are talking about Eric, right?

I agree though... if there was ever a chance to get him, this could be it.

As for the 4(3) quarters... Schenn + Connolly + Kadri for Staal + prospet (or something)  Wudja?

I'd do Franson, Kadri and Connolly for Staal. If needed, a 2nd or 3rd could be added to either side of the ledger to grease the deal through the door.

 

[maplesyrup]

I think E. Staal is more valuable then a lot of you guys give him credit for.  - Just me. ???

Edit: Schenn + Kadri or Colborne + Kulemin or Grabo?
Edit II: Even then, Grabo has little value to Carolina due to his contract status so back to the drawing board.

 

[Erndog]

Like Busta, if we can do this with the ol' 4 quarters for a dollar type move, it would certainly be worth looking at.  Carolina is also in the position where they need help *everywhere* (like Calgary was in the Phaneuf deal) so they might be willing to move 1 for 3-4? 

I don't know, probably dreaming here but Staal IS on pace for his 4th straight year around 70-75 points (actually on pace for a lot worse).  He's making $8.25M.  I don't think it's entirely out of the realm of poissibilities they entertain offers.

I think the 4 quarters for a dollar idea could happen - usually how these trades go - but they will be 4 of our better quarters vs the sticky ones at the bottom of the cup holder we used to get Phaneuf.

70-75 pts?  Staal is on pace for 28 points by NHL.com and TSN's count.  He's also a -16 already.  MINUS SIXTEEN!!  We are talking about Eric, right?

I agree though... if there was ever a chance to get him, this could be it.

As for the 4(3) quarters... Schenn + Connolly + Kadri for Staal + prospet (or something)  Wudja?

You may laugh, but that exact deal was what I proposed in my head, I just didn't want to say it out of fear of Nik beating me over the head.

Also, even though Eric is on pace for ~30 I don't think anyone in the league thinks he remains there.  Will probably have his worst year post lockout but I'm still guessing he will end up around 60-65 points.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I'd do Franson, Kadri and Connolly for Staal. If needed, a 2nd or 3rd could be added to either side of the ledger to grease the deal through the door.

That wouldn't be enough to get him here. We would most definitely have to give them a 1st rounder in any deal.

I would part with those players for him in a heartbeat, however I wouldn't give up Joe Colborne in any deal for a top line center, unless we were getting a young one in return and I know that Staal is not that old, but I see Colborne as the best center in our system and believe he could be what we're looking for.

So if we could somehow land Staal without giving up Colborne, I would give up almost anything within reason to land him.

 

[Corn Flake]

I think E. Staal is more valuable then a lot of you guys give him credit for.  - Just me. ???

Edit: Schenn + Kadri or Colborne + Kulemin or Grabo?
Edit II: Even then, Grabo has little value to Carolina due to his contract status so back to the drawing board.

Two reasons why Connolly likely ends up in the deal... 1, the salary balancing act. We are talking about $8.4 million coming back.  2., he's a good centre if healthy (hahahahaha) can fill at least some of Staal's shoes.  Canes save 50% at this position by going this route and it buys time for Kadri if in the deal.

As for value, its the "Phaneuf" factor that comes into play.... the notion of how fast a player's stock can drop and how it gets magnified when he makes big money.  And Staal is one of the highest paid in the league in one of the smaller markets.  The summer before Dion was traded he was at Team Canada's orientation camp.  I'm not expecting a Calgary'esqe fleecing here but the 3-for-1 type deal is possible.

We have no idea of what the trade cost would be.. just throwing out some names/ideas.  could be substantially higher or might not be, depending on what Carolina wants to do.

 

[bustaheims]

I think E. Staal is more valuable then a lot of you guys give him credit for.  - Just me. ???

I think that's the real issue here - I get the feeling that his perceived value is greater than his actual value, which becomes a problem when dealing with the idea of trading for him. He's a very good player, and the a 1st line centre, like the Leafs need, but, with that contract and what it would likely cost to acquire . . . odds are you're giving up a fair amount more than you're getting in return. He's not a guy I go all out to acquire right now, that's for sure - and, to me, that means guys like Colborne, Kulemin, Gardiner, Schenn, Kadri, etc are pretty much off limits, and, if that means no deal, then it's no deal. I'd much rather do something around Connolly, MacArthur, Franson and maybe someone like Biggs or Blacker - though, I doubt Carolina goes for anything like that right now.

 

[Corn Flake]

I'd do Franson, Kadri and Connolly for Staal. If needed, a 2nd or 3rd could be added to either side of the ledger to grease the deal through the door.

That wouldn't be enough to get him here. We would most definitely have to give them a 1st rounder in any deal.

I would part with those players for him in a heartbeat, however I wouldn't give up Joe Colborne in any deal for a top line center, unless we were getting a young one in return and I know that Staal is not that old, but I see Colborne as the best center in our system and believe he could be what we're looking for.

So if we could somehow land Staal without giving up Colborne, I would give up almost anything within reason to land him.

I think as this season winds on the Leafs size issues up front are going to be further magnified.  The Boston came was an extreme example, but one where needing big physical skilled forwards comes into play. 

If there is an opening to get Staal, I think you pay the price if you can avoid moving your top young prospects (Colborne, Gardiner) and not gut another part of your team.

 

[Kin]

Unless Carolina is in full-on panic mode why in the world would they look to trade Staal, a consistent and steady performer for years, when his value is at it's lowest?

 

[#1PilarFan]

Unless Carolina is in full-on panic mode why in the world would they look to trade Staal, a consistent and steady performer for years, when his value is at it's lowest?

Rutherford is a shrewd GM and I doubt he's feeling much pressure, but you never know.

I think what's more likely is Maurice will be fired than Staal will be traded, but if Joe Thornton can be traded for fifty cents on the dollar, then Staal can be too.

 

[Kin]

I think what's more likely is Maurice will be fired than Staal will be traded, but if Joe Thornton can be traded for fifty cents on the dollar, then Staal can be too.

Man, that Thornton trade is like that grainy photo of the Loch Ness monster for ridiculous trade rumours.

 

[cw]

Rutherford is a shrewd GM and I doubt he's feeling much pressure, but you never know.

I doubt Rutherford would trade Staal at this juncture but even if he did, he isn't likely to get ripped off because of his shrewdness. He'd get full and fair value. What that is in terms of the currency of Leafs talent, I'm not sure - have to think about it.

 

[#1PilarFan]

I think what's more likely is Maurice will be fired than Staal will be traded, but if Joe Thornton can be traded for fifty cents on the dollar, then Staal can be too.

Man, that Thornton trade is like that grainy photo of the Loch Ness monster for ridiculous trade rumours.

I think it goes to show that some GMs don't always value players like fans do.

But I guess if you're looking for more examples of trades that seemed implausible but were still made, I could provide with some. Off the top of my head, without even bothering to recover from my hangover, I could point you to Fletcher's infamous Calgary deal and Burke's acquisition of Phanuef and Aulie for what amounted to be spare parts.

Or, in a different league, AA's trade for Rasmus. And that's without even really trying. I'm not saying it's going to happen, I'm just saying that it's not as unrealistic as one might think. 

 

[Erndog]

I think what's more likely is Maurice will be fired than Staal will be traded, but if Joe Thornton can be traded for fifty cents on the dollar, then Staal can be too.

Man, that Thornton trade is like that grainy photo of the Loch Ness monster for ridiculous trade rumours.

I think it goes to show that some GMs don't always value players like fans do.

But I guess if you're looking for more examples of trades that seemed implausible but were still made, I could provide with some. Off the top of my head, without even bothering to recover from my hangover, I could point you to Fletcher's infamous Calgary deal and Burke's acquisition of Phanuef and Aulie for what amounted to be spare parts.

Or, in a different league, AA's trade for Rasmus. And that's without even really trying. I'm not saying it's going to happen, I'm just saying that it's not as unrealistic as one might think.

Sens traded Havlat for spare parts.  Florida just traded David Booth, a former "untouchable", for two mid 30, pending UFAs.  They also dealt Nathan Horton (and Campbell) to Boston for Wideman (soon after they dealt him too) and picks.  Of course there is the Phaneuf deal.  Or the Sens Heatley deal.  LA didn't get much in return for Cammalleri.  Calgary just gave away Regehr this summer also. 

Yeah, these aren't perfect examples, but I wouldn't say Staal's situation is completely comfortable in Carolina either.  Fans are showing they are souring on him, he's having an abysmal year, he hasn't come close to replicating his career year 5 years ago, and he is carrying a massive cap hit for a team that operates on a budget rather than a cap budget.  I wouldn't completely disregard it.     

 

[Kin]

I think it goes to show that some GMs don't always value players like fans do.

I don't think so. I think it shows that terrible, terrible trades can be made. At the time of the Thornton trade the reaction was "they got what?" and "he was even available?"

But I guess if you're looking for more examples of trades that seemed implausible but were still made, I could provide with some. Off the top of my head, without even bothering to recover from my hangover, I could point you to Fletcher's infamous Calgary deal and Burke's acquisition of Phanuef and Aulie for what amounted to be spare parts.

I think there's a difference between deals being surprising and deals being made that are entirely counter-productive to a team's interests. I didn't see the Chris Stewart for Erik Johnson deal coming but after it was made it wasn't like I had to scratch my head and try to figure out what in the blue blazes was going on.

Saying that any star could be dealt for a 50 cents on the dollar because one GM made a trade like that(and then got canned the next year) doesn't seem like a legitimate basis for this kind of conjecture. Without looking at the situation and trying drawing specific parallels between them it seems like someone in Manitoba saying "I'm not going in the lake because a guy in Australia got bit by a shark so anything's possible."

Or, in a different league, AA's trade for Rasmus. And that's without even really trying. I'm not saying it's going to happen, I'm just saying that it's not as unrealistic as one might think.

Well, not to get too deep into another sport but Rasmus wasn't an established star struggling and being dealt so it's not really analogous. There were lots of rumours of the Rasmus/La Russa troubles and they made a deal that, you know, worked out ok for them. They dealt a struggling player with potential for immediate improvement.

 

[Kin]

Sens traded Havlat for spare parts.  Florida just traded David Booth, a former "untouchable", for two mid 30, pending UFAs.  They also dealt Nathan Horton (and Campbell) to Boston for Wideman (soon after they dealt him too) and picks.  Of course there is the Phaneuf deal.  Or the Sens Heatley deal.  LA didn't get much in return for Cammalleri.  Calgary just gave away Regehr this summer also. 

Yeah, these aren't perfect examples, but I wouldn't say Staal's situation is completely comfortable in Carolina either. 

Not perfect? Come on. Now you're comparing this to situations of guys demanding trades, guys who got dealt because they couldn't be re-signed and guys who had comfortably played their way off of the "untouchable" list?

That'd be like saying the Leafs might be able to sign Alexander Semin this year for three million a year because that's what Jagr got and Jagr scored 149 points one year.

 

[Number 5]

There's sharks in Manitoba?