The Official 2011/2012 Armchair GM thread

[maplesyrup]

This was one of his better seasons statistically in the past few years, so there isn't really much evidence to suggest he's on the decline. I would also guess he wouldn't be playing 70 games a season as a Leaf. As for the price, yeah I wouldn't give up Schenn here. But guys like Reimer, Franson, Colborne, and Ashton would all be available to talk about.

Well, there's the age thing and while I'm desperate to upgrade the position, I'd be hesitant to trade what could be contributing pieces of or future for him. Not because I don't think he's a good goalie but because he's only got two years left. I'd really have to think hard about dealing any of those guys you mention above for him. I'd much rather zero in on a guy like (but not necessarily) Lindback.

 

[Tigger]

But guys like Reimer, Franson, Colborne, and Ashton would all be available to talk about.

Franson + Scrivens + a pick (not a 1st)?

(Oh crap, I'm doing it again........)

Me too...

 

[maplesyrup]

Are we really suggesting to keep Connolly instead of including him in a deal for a good goalie?

Not at all.

Not me.

 

[Corn Flake]

But guys like Reimer, Franson, Colborne, and Ashton would all be available to talk about.

Franson + Scrivens + a pick (not a 1st)?

(Oh crap, I'm doing it again........)

Me too...

Or, we could align it to what Luongo cost when the Canucks got him from FLA:

Todd Bertuzzi, Bryan Allen, Alex Auld, 2007 conditional sixth round pick (not exercised)  for Roberto Luongo, Lukas Krajicek, 2006 sixth round pick

Somewhat equates to:

Connolly, Franson, Scrivens, late pick for Kipper + prospect + pick


(OMG make me stop)

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Vokoun and Luongo were both what, 10 years younger than Kipper when they were traded? I don't think you can use those transactions are direct comparables.

 

[maplesyrup]

Hey, at least with Luongo, there's term there.  :-\ I'm not against Kipper, I'd just be inclined to make the lion share of the return guys who (like Kipper) don't amount to much of the team's future.

 

[Tigger]

But guys like Reimer, Franson, Colborne, and Ashton would all be available to talk about.

Franson + Scrivens + a pick (not a 1st)?

(Oh crap, I'm doing it again........)

Me too...

Or, we could align it to what Luongo cost when the Canucks got him from FLA:

Todd Bertuzzi, Bryan Allen, Alex Auld, 2007 conditional sixth round pick (not exercised)  for Roberto Luongo, Lukas Krajicek, 2006 sixth round pick

Somewhat equates to:

Connolly, Franson, Scrivens, late pick for Kipper + prospect + pick


(OMG make me stop)

...cccan't....ssstop....

Quick and dirty from recent musings...


Lupul          Staal      Kessel        13.65
Kadri        Grabovski  Frattin          8.5
Lombardi  Gaustad    Ashton        7.55
Steckel  McClement  Prust            3.9
Brown                                          .74

                                              34.34

Gunnarsson Phaneuf                7.825
Gardiner      Schenn                  4.8
Liles          Holzer                    4.875
Komisarek  Schultz                  5.7

                                              23.3

Kipper                                    5.84
Scrivens                                  1
                         
                                              6.84

                                    64.48

Missing some firepower up front, if the Leafs get a free buyout could work something in.

 

[Tigger]

Vokoun and Luongo were both what, 10 years younger than Kipper when they were traded? I don't think you can use those transactions are direct comparables.

So how much do you think that would change ( yeah, just a guess )

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Vokoun and Luongo were both what, 10 years younger than Kipper when they were traded? I don't think you can use those transactions are direct comparables.

So how much do you think that would change ( yeah, just a guess )

Well, for starters in that Luongo comparison Bertuzzi was coming off a 71-point season and was still considered a top-line forward. Connolly isn't at that point, and arguably has never been there. Now, we don't really need to worry about that because like I said at Kipper's age he isn't going to be getting a top-line player in return. If we're sticking with the Luongo comparison that leaves Allen (a young defencemen with upside) and Auld (a young goalie with upside) left. I'd say Franson+Reimer/Scrivens would be a pretty good way to start off negotiations.

edit: So I mean, I think that CF's proposed offer was pretty close, but the assumption that Bertuzzi=Connolly wasn't.

 

[maplesyrup]

Sarge, if Connolly had played regularly with goal scorers I think he probably would have been perceived a little differently, there's only so much he can do playing a lot with Lombardi and Crabb. I mean, even so, he wasn't that far off his production and games played from the year before.

Who knows. I will say however, that when I think of what our roster may look like next season, if I pencil Connolly in the top 6 it's a problem because we won't have upgraded enough there and if he's in the bottom 6, it's a problem because he's too expensive for what he contributes and let's be honest, it pretty Joey Crabbesque. Basically, he's a problem wherever you put him ... Just not good.

 

[Tigger]

Vokoun and Luongo were both what, 10 years younger than Kipper when they were traded? I don't think you can use those transactions are direct comparables.

So how much do you think that would change ( yeah, just a guess )

Well, for starters in that Luongo comparison Bertuzzi was coming off a 71-point season and was still considered a top-line forward. Connolly isn't at that point, and arguably has never been there. Now, we don't really need to worry about that because like I said at Kipper's age he isn't going to be getting a top-line player in return. If we're sticking with the Luongo comparison that leaves Allen (a young defencemen with upside) and Auld (a young goalie with upside) left. I'd say Franson+Reimer/Scrivens would be a pretty good way to start off negotiations.

edit: So I mean, I think that CF's proposed offer was pretty close, but the assumption that Bertuzzi=Connolly wasn't.

Fair enough. I'd still like to see Connolly go for the cap space.

Boy, looking back at that roster I really have to hope for a free buyout with Komisarek, that's represents a real bane to the goalscoring, and that's with Connolly and Army gone.

Heck, if they're allowed more Lombardi would be gone too.

 

[sampson]

But guys like Reimer, Franson, Colborne, and Ashton would all be available to talk about.

Franson + Scrivens + a pick (not a 1st)?

(Oh crap, I'm doing it again........)

Me too...

Or, we could align it to what Luongo cost when the Canucks got him from FLA:

Todd Bertuzzi, Bryan Allen, Alex Auld, 2007 conditional sixth round pick (not exercised)  for Roberto Luongo, Lukas Krajicek, 2006 sixth round pick

Somewhat equates to:

Connolly, Franson, Scrivens, late pick for Kipper + prospect + pick


(OMG make me stop)

...cccan't....ssstop....

Quick and dirty from recent musings...


Lupul          Staal      Kessel        13.65
Kadri        Grabovski  Frattin          8.5
Lombardi  Gaustad    Ashton        7.55
Steckel  McClement  Prust            3.9
Brown                                          .74

                                              34.34

Gunnarsson Phaneuf                7.825
Gardiner      Schenn                  4.8
Liles          Holzer                    4.875
Komisarek  Schultz                  5.7

                                              23.3

Kipper                                    5.84
Scrivens                                  1
                         
                                              6.84

                                    64.48

Missing some firepower up front, if the Leafs get a free buyout could work something in.

Does it make us big and tough enough?  I'm not really all that excited about Lombardi or Ashton

 

[Tigger]

Probably not, I'm not thrilled with that third line either. It's tough to juggle all the needs given the cap space/roster, and it's full of assumptions anyways but it gets a little closer to a Carlyle team I think, even just in the bottom six.

I'm skeptical of Steckel's ability to really play a third line role but he got a hell of an audition with Carlyle, they may decide he's the man there and that would change things on it's own.

Burke said something along the lines of needing 4 or 5 physical types when he was referring to Boston's intimidation of the Leafs, of course getting a Lucic and a Chara is impossible so I really dunno, just floating ideas.

The wild card with the CBA is tough to predict as well.

 

[Bender]

I'm not saying Connolly is a good player, but to package Connolly and Schenn and not get younger? For a guy that the consensus is on the decline? I just don't think it's a great idea unless it's one of our only options and we expect to become a contender in three years, because if not it's a waste of assets when Kipper retires and we're still no closer to winning the cup.

 

[Frank E]

I'm not saying Connolly is a good player, but to package Connolly and Schenn and not get younger? For a guy that the consensus is on the decline? I just don't think it's a great idea unless it's one of our only options and we expect to become a contender in three years, because if not it's a waste of assets when Kipper retires and we're still no closer to winning the cup.

'Young' we've got covered.  'Better' we don't. 

I'm fine with giving up some youth to get better.  And Kipper doesn't carry much contract length to suck up cap room long term. 

 

[maplesyrup]

I'm not saying Connolly is a good player, but to package Connolly and Schenn and not get younger? For a guy that the consensus is on the decline? I just don't think it's a great idea unless it's one of our only options and we expect to become a contender in three years, because if not it's a waste of assets when Kipper retires and we're still no closer to winning the cup.

^ This. ^

 

[Tigger]

I don't want to see Schenn go for that but Kipper is not on the decline, far from it, his numbers were fantastic this year.

 

[MBC]

Anyone think Bozak and Kulemin get you some footing towards J Staal?

I think those are the guys that would form the cornerstone of the deal from Toronto's perspective.  There might be additional assets added from either side to make the deal work, but that's the guts of it IMO.

 

[Corn Flake]

But guys like Reimer, Franson, Colborne, and Ashton would all be available to talk about.

Franson + Scrivens + a pick (not a 1st)?

(Oh crap, I'm doing it again........)

Me too...

Or, we could align it to what Luongo cost when the Canucks got him from FLA:

Todd Bertuzzi, Bryan Allen, Alex Auld, 2007 conditional sixth round pick (not exercised)  for Roberto Luongo, Lukas Krajicek, 2006 sixth round pick

Somewhat equates to:

Connolly, Franson, Scrivens, late pick for Kipper + prospect + pick


(OMG make me stop)

...cccan't....ssstop....

Quick and dirty from recent musings...


Lupul          Staal      Kessel        13.65
Kadri        Grabovski  Frattin          8.5
Lombardi  Gaustad    Ashton        7.55
Steckel  McClement  Prust            3.9
Brown                                          .74

                                              34.34

Gunnarsson Phaneuf                7.825
Gardiner      Schenn                  4.8
Liles          Holzer                    4.875
Komisarek  Schultz                  5.7

                                              23.3

Kipper                                    5.84
Scrivens                                  1
                         
                                              6.84

                                    64.48

Missing some firepower up front, if the Leafs get a free buyout could work something in.

Does it make us big and tough enough?  I'm not really all that excited about Lombardi or Ashton

Flip Schenn for Chris Stewart or another large power forward potential type player, move Komisarek (hold your nose) into the 2nd or 3rd pair on the right side. 

What I don't see that is more of an issue is the added veteran leadership.

 

[princedpw]

Anyone think Bozak and Kulemin get you some footing towards J Staal?

I think those are the guys that would form the cornerstone of the deal from Toronto's perspective.  There might be additional assets added from either side to make the deal work, but that's the guts of it IMO.

I don't really see why Pittsburgh would prefer Kulemin and Bozak over Staal.