The Official 2011/2012 Armchair GM thread

[bustaheims]

So let's continue to play bingo build through the draft and never jump on opportunities to acquire relatively young superstars when the opportunity arises. YAY!... The Toronto City Royals! Weee!

How can the Leafs continue to do something that one could argue they haven't really even started yet? And, really, at best, they've only barely begun the process. But, hey, why not abandon it now and go back to the tried and true methods that have won the team so many Cups in the last 4 and a half decades?

 

[maplesyrup]

Safe to say it's not possible for me to disagree with your proposed trade any more than I presently do. I also don't think Nash is one of the top 10 players in the league and that's the only type of player I'd consider giving that kind of package for and that's again only if I'm looking for more short term gratification than long term building.

Top 10 player in the league? No. I don't think so either bus he's a lock at as one of the top 3,4,5 wingers in the league in my estimation. He's just so good at both ends of the ice and who gives a rats ass about his regular season numbers? He's never had anyone decent to play with and when he has in international play, he's always shown up in a big way. I don't know. I'm just such a fan. Does it fog my judgement? Maybe... but with that said, I stand comfortably beside my proposal.

With Bozak, Connolly, Steckel and prosepcts down the middle.

Never did I say stop with Nash.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Top 10 player in the league? No. I don't think so either bus he's a lock at as one of the top 3,4,5 wingers in the league in my estimation. He's just so good at both ends of the ice and who gives a rats ass about his regular season numbers? He's never had anyone decent to play with and when he has in international play, he's always shown up in a big way. I don't know. I'm just such a fan. Does it fog my judgement? Maybe... but with that said, I stand comfortably beside my proposal.

I care about his regular season numbers because it's really all we have to judge him on.  Fact is 37 wingers outscored him this season and about the same last season.  It's fine saying he doesn't have people to play with, but neither does Kessel and he produces significantly more.

As for International play, anyone would look better surrounded by that level of talent.

The bottom line is do I think he is as bad as his scoring shows? No, but I don't think the intangibles he brings are worth one of the best second line centres in the league, a top five pick and a prospect.

 

[maplesyrup]

How can the Leafs continue to do something that one could argue they haven't really even started yet? And, really, at best, they've only barely begun the process. But, hey, why not abandon it now and go back to the tried and true methods that have won the team so many Cups in the last 4 and a half decades?

If Nash wants out and the number of teams a stud like him is willing to be traded to is limited to just a couple of teams, I think it would be incredibly irresponsible to not put a decent offer out for him. 

 

[bustaheims]

If Nash wants out and the number of teams a stud like him is willing to be traded to is limited to just a couple of teams, I think it would be incredibly irresponsible to not put a decent offer out for him.

It would be equally, if not more, irresponsibly to put forth an offer that would weaken the future of the team further than Nash improves it - which, if we're really being honest about the team and about Nash, would be just about any offer than Columbus would seriously consider accepting.

 

[maplesyrup]

The bottom line is do I think he is as bad as his scoring shows? No, but I don't think the intangibles he brings are worth one of the best second line centres in the league, a top five pick and a prospect.

Well let's be fair, I did say that we might consider getting something back with Nash in that deal if you recall.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

The bottom line is do I think he is as bad as his scoring shows? No, but I don't think the intangibles he brings are worth one of the best second line centres in the league, a top five pick and a prospect.

Well let's be fair, I did say that we might consider getting something back with Nash in that deal if you recall.

If we're being fair, let's call the 31st pick you mentioned and the prospect a wash (which is being generous, because I doubt Columbus wants anyone we could replace at 31 in a weak draft, so we likely lose here too.)

I still don't do a top five pick and Grabo for Nash.

Truth is I have think long and hard about whether moving #5 for him straight up is something I'd do. Mostly because it handicaps us financially somewhat and signals a pretty significant change in direction for the franchise.

 

[maplesyrup]

If Nash wants out and the number of teams a stud like him is willing to be traded to is limited to just a couple of teams, I think it would be incredibly irresponsible to not put a decent offer out for him.

It would be equally, if not more, irresponsibly to put forth an offer that would weaken the future of the team further than Nash improves it - which, if we're really being honest about the team and about Nash, would be just about any offer than Columbus would seriously consider accepting.

... and I don't think my offer does. I like Grabo just fine but honestly, he's not irreplaceable. Now if you feel that a deal involving Grabo and our #5 as the principles simply isn't enough to acquire Nash then sure, I move on.

 

[bustaheims]

Truth is I have think long and hard about whether moving #5 for him straight up is something I'd do.

As would I, as I think the difference in cap hit between the player taken with the pick and Nash for the next 6 seasons will likely outweigh the likely talent difference between the two.

 

[maplesyrup]

The bottom line is do I think he is as bad as his scoring shows? No, but I don't think the intangibles he brings are worth one of the best second line centres in the league, a top five pick and a prospect.

Well let's be fair, I did say that we might consider getting something back with Nash in that deal if you recall.

If we're being fair, let's call the 31st pick you mentioned and the prospect a wash (which is being generous, because I doubt Columbus wants anyone we could replace at 31 in a weak draft, so we likely lose here too.)

I still don't do a top five pick and Grabo for Nash.

Truth is I have think long and hard about whether moving #5 for him straight up is something I'd do. Mostly because it handicaps us financially somewhat and signals a pretty significant change in direction for the franchise.

Don't forget, Grabo is now a 5.5 mil player. The extra 2.3 mil is hardly a handcuff in my estimation.

 

[bustaheims]

... and I don't think my offer does. I like Grabo just fine but honestly, he's not irreplaceable. Now if you feel that a deal involving Grabo and our #5 as the principles simply isn't enough to acquire Nash then sure, I move on.

I don't, but, I also think that Grabovski + the player taken with the 5th overall pick will likely provide more to the team than Nash alone.

 

[Britishbulldog]

Galchenyuk/Murray/Forsberg will be more valuable to us for a longer period of time than Nash, Thornton,etc.

I think this is just a big waste on our part and is a VERY, WIN NOW mentality. This team is far from.......  competing, and I would argue that actually makes our team AND organization weaker than it is already.

Definitely a concern when I hear people get excited about older players from other teams that are re-tooling like San Jose, etc.  I don't understand why the press, fans, etc would think the Leafs are farther ahead then some of those good teams that got knocked out of the playoffs.

If I am trading the #5, it would be for a young player like Tyler Myers, etc. Not a franchise player but a top young player.

 

[Deebo]

... and I don't think my offer does. I like Grabo just fine but honestly, he's not irreplaceable. Now if you feel that a deal involving Grabo and our #5 as the principles simply isn't enough to acquire Nash then sure, I move on.

I don't, but, I also think that Grabovski + the player taken with the 5th overall pick will likely provide more to the team than Nash alone.

Maybe not this coming season, but next season and beyond they could be our 1st and 2nd line centres.

 

[maplesyrup]

I don't, but, I also think that Grabovski + the player taken with the 5th overall pick will likely provide more to the team than Nash alone.

Well, like I said, Grabo + #5 + salary dump for Nash + maybe #31 - or equivlent prospect. I know it's easy to omit the details but I think they're important. If Columbus bites on something like that, I'd do it.

 

[Deebo]

Safe to say it's not possible for me to disagree with your proposed trade any more than I presently do. I also don't think Nash is one of the top 10 players in the league and that's the only type of player I'd consider giving that kind of package for and that's again only if I'm looking for more short term gratification than long term building.

Top 10 player in the league? No. I don't think so either bus he's a lock at as one of the top 3,4,5 wingers in the league in my estimation. He's just so good at both ends of the ice and who gives a rats ass about his regular season numbers? He's never had anyone decent to play with and when he has in international play, he's always shown up in a big way. I don't know. I'm just such a fan. Does it fog my judgement? Maybe... but with that said, I stand comfortably beside my proposal.

With Bozak, Connolly, Steckel and prosepcts down the middle.

Never did I say stop with Nash.

Do you have any thing in mind to fill the top 2 centre positions?

 

[bustaheims]

Well, like I said, Grabo + #5 + salary dump for Nash + maybe #31 - or equivlent prospect. I know it's easy to omit the details but I think they're important. If Columbus bites on something like that, I'd do it.

Think longer term, Sarge. All but one of the potential salary dumps are gone after next season. None of them are a burden past the season after that. There's really no pressing need for the team to rid themselves of any of them. Dumping any of them just isn't that attractive an addition to any deal. As for the additional pick/equivalent prospect - like with the salary dump, in this draft, it's not that attractive an addition either. It really basically boils down to Grabovski and the 5th for Nash, because the other components of the deal don't hold much or any value.

 

[maplesyrup]

Safe to say it's not possible for me to disagree with your proposed trade any more than I presently do. I also don't think Nash is one of the top 10 players in the league and that's the only type of player I'd consider giving that kind of package for and that's again only if I'm looking for more short term gratification than long term building.

Top 10 player in the league? No. I don't think so either bus he's a lock at as one of the top 3,4,5 wingers in the league in my estimation. He's just so good at both ends of the ice and who gives a rats ass about his regular season numbers? He's never had anyone decent to play with and when he has in international play, he's always shown up in a big way. I don't know. I'm just such a fan. Does it fog my judgement? Maybe... but with that said, I stand comfortably beside my proposal.

With Bozak, Connolly, Steckel and prosepcts down the middle.

Never did I say stop with Nash.

Do you have any thing in mind to fill the top 2 centre positions?

While I suggested putting the #5 pick in play for Duchene too, I'm not sure it's required. Maybe it is but I don't know to be honest with you. - I'm glad I'm not burdened with the decision. That Staal deal mentioned by a Pens fan didn't suck in my estimation either. Duchene/Bozak 1/2, or Bozak/Staal 1/2... I don't know... I suppose there are options to be had out there. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

 

[maplesyrup]

Well, like I said, Grabo + #5 + salary dump for Nash + maybe #31 - or equivlent prospect. I know it's easy to omit the details but I think they're important. If Columbus bites on something like that, I'd do it.

Think longer term, Sarge. All but one of the potential salary dumps are gone after next season. None of them are a burden past the season after that. There's really no pressing need for the team to rid themselves of any of them. Dumping any of them just isn't that attractive an addition to any deal. As for the additional pick/equivalent prospect - like with the salary dump, in this draft, it's not that attractive an addition either. It really basically boils down to Grabovski and the 5th for Nash, because the other components of the deal don't hold much or any value.

The #5 pick is really going to be that special, eh? Okay, I'm holding you to it. 

 

[bustaheims]

The #5 pick is really going to be that special, eh? Okay, I'm holding you to it. 

It could be, and, it's definitely going to be more affordable against the cap than Nash. Overall, holding on to it and Grabovski is better for team building than moving them for Nash.

 

[maplesyrup]

The #5 pick is really going to be that special, eh? Okay, I'm holding you to it. 

It could be, and, it's definitely going to be more affordable against the cap than Nash. Overall, holding on to it and Grabovski is better for team building than moving them for Nash.

... and I guess this is where we fundamentally disagree. For me, I'd rather move forward with Nash (who I believe is actually a titch younger than Grabo) who (let's be honest) is the far superior player than Grabo and what amounts to be a lottery ticket.