The Official 2011/2012 Armchair GM thread

[Britishbulldog]

I dont follow.  Why would Burke not do what he wants and can do?

Because those things all have prices and the thing about Burke so far is that while he seems to be as competent as anyone in terms of identifying what the team's needs are what's held him up in a lot of deals is that he's been unable or unwilling to pay the price to make those deals.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. A lot of the prices being paid of late for talent upgrades have been high to the point where that reluctance is probably a smart thing but, as the analogy that got resurrected the other day said, there's only so long you can wait for the price of food to drop before you starve.

Thanks Nik3.  That's EXACTLY my perspective of Burke.

 

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

From the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review they speculate as to potential Staal suitors - Carolina, Toronto, Edmonton and Minnnesota.

Toronto Maple Leafs

It has become known that Toronto general manager Brian Burke is a big Jordan Staal fan. In fact, every GM in hockey is a big Staal fan, but Burke is said to particularly covet him.

Burke and Shero are friends and have conducted business together. Think they would like Staal, a Thunder Bay native, in Ontario?

What the Maple Leafs have to offer

Center Nazem Kadri is the most talented player in Toronto?s system, and he thrived late in the season with the Maple Leafs. He?s a pure goal scorer. Also, defenseman Luke Schenn is the kind of physical, stay-at-home defenseman the Penguins badly need. The Maple Leafs are willing to deal Schenn.

Not sure that Kadri and Schenn get it done - package of Schenn, Bozak and a 2nd tier prospect (Ross, Blacker, Holzer) might work for both sides.

 

[Erndog]

-  Schenn for JVR
-  5th overall + Franson (they want a D) + Bozak (replacement) for Staal
-  Sign Chris Kelly


Lupul-Staal-Kessel
JVR-Grabovski-Kadri
Kulemin-Kelly-MacArthur
Crabb-Steckal-Brown

I'd like that!

 

[maplesyrup]

-  Schenn for JVR
-  5th overall + Franson (they want a D) + Bozak (replacement) for Staal
-  Sign Chris Kelly


Lupul-Staal-Kessel
JVR-Grabovski-Kadri
Kulemin-Kelly-MacArthur
Crabb-Steckal-Brown

I'd like that!

So would I though l'd be inclined to move Mac in order to recover a "future" and put Frattin there.

Edit: or Kulemin for that matter to... Maybe for Stewart out of St. Louis as opposed to a future... Either way, I think we need to factor Frattin inherent somewhere.

 

[Erndog]

-  Schenn for JVR
-  5th overall + Franson (they want a D) + Bozak (replacement) for Staal
-  Sign Chris Kelly


Lupul-Staal-Kessel
JVR-Grabovski-Kadri
Kulemin-Kelly-MacArthur
Crabb-Steckal-Brown

I'd like that!

So would I though l'd be inclined to move Mac in order to recover a "future" and put Frattin there.

Edit: or Kulemin for that matter to... Maybe for Stewart out of St. Louis as opposed to a future... Either way, I think we need to factor Frattin inherent somewhere.

Yes, agreed.  Don't know why Frattin slipped my mind.  Typing too fast I guess.

Move Mac for a future (if we trade our 5th overall this year, I think I'd like a pick for Mac to keep a stream of youngsters coming).  Hopefully a late first?  Maybe an early 2nd?  Or a second and a 3rd?  Something like that.

 

[maplesyrup]

-  Schenn for JVR
-  5th overall + Franson (they want a D) + Bozak (replacement) for Staal
-  Sign Chris Kelly


Lupul-Staal-Kessel
JVR-Grabovski-Kadri
Kulemin-Kelly-MacArthur
Crabb-Steckal-Brown

I'd like that!

So would I though l'd be inclined to move Mac in order to recover a "future" and put Frattin there.

Edit: or Kulemin for that matter to... Maybe for Stewart out of St. Louis as opposed to a future... Either way, I think we need to factor Frattin inherent somewhere.

Yes, agreed.  Don't know why Frattin slipped my mind.  Typing too fast I guess.

Move Mac for a future (if we trade our 5th overall this year, I think I'd like a pick for Mac to keep a stream of youngsters coming).  Hopefully a late first?  Maybe an early 2nd?  Or a second and a 3rd?  Something like that.

Yup. Something like that.

 

[Erndog]

-  Schenn for JVR
-  5th overall + Franson (they want a D) + Bozak (replacement) for Staal
-  Sign Chris Kelly


Lupul-Staal-Kessel
JVR-Grabovski-Kadri
Kulemin-Kelly-MacArthur
Crabb-Steckal-Brown

I'd like that!

So would I though l'd be inclined to move Mac in order to recover a "future" and put Frattin there.

Edit: or Kulemin for that matter to... Maybe for Stewart out of St. Louis as opposed to a future... Either way, I think we need to factor Frattin inherent somewhere.

Yes, agreed.  Don't know why Frattin slipped my mind.  Typing too fast I guess.

Move Mac for a future (if we trade our 5th overall this year, I think I'd like a pick for Mac to keep a stream of youngsters coming).  Hopefully a late first?  Maybe an early 2nd?  Or a second and a 3rd?  Something like that.

Yup. Something like that.

Then what to do with Connolly, Armstrong and Lombardi?

I mean... getting rid of 1 I can see.  2 would be awesome.  All 3?  A miracle.

 

[Corn Flake]

-  Schenn for JVR
-  5th overall + Franson (they want a D) + Bozak (replacement) for Staal
-  Sign Chris Kelly

Lupul-Staal-Kessel
JVR-Grabovski-Kadri
Kulemin-Kelly-MacArthur
Crabb-Steckal-Brown

I'd like that!

I would do whatever I had to do to keep the 5th pick and I don't see it moving in that trade, to be honest.  Franson + Mac + Kulemin, perhaps or Franson + Colborne.

 

[maplesyrup]

-  Schenn for JVR
-  5th overall + Franson (they want a D) + Bozak (replacement) for Staal
-  Sign Chris Kelly


Lupul-Staal-Kessel
JVR-Grabovski-Kadri
Kulemin-Kelly-MacArthur
Crabb-Steckal-Brown

I'd like that!

So would I though l'd be inclined to move Mac in order to recover a "future" and put Frattin there.

Edit: or Kulemin for that matter to... Maybe for Stewart out of St. Louis as opposed to a future... Either way, I think we need to factor Frattin inherent somewhere.

Yes, agreed.  Don't know why Frattin slipped my mind.  Typing too fast I guess.

Move Mac for a future (if we trade our 5th overall this year, I think I'd like a pick for Mac to keep a stream of youngsters coming).  Hopefully a late first?  Maybe an early 2nd?  Or a second and a 3rd?  Something like that.

Yup. Something like that.

Then what to do with Connolly, Armstrong and Lombardi?

I mean... getting rid of 1 I can see.  2 would be awesome.  All 3?  A miracle.

I don't think dealing with two of those guys income fashion is going to be out of the question... Keeping one of Army around in some capacity wouldn't kill me either.

 

[bustaheims]

I would do whatever I had to do to keep the 5th pick and I don't see it moving in that trade, to be honest.  Franson + Mac + Kulemin, perhaps or Franson + Colborne.

Especially in light of the fact the he's 1 season away from being a UFA and can't be signed to an extension until July, I'd be very hesitant to part with that pick for him. There have been rumours floating around that he'd really like to play with one of his brothers, and, if that's true, unless the Leafs can pry Eric or Mark out of Carolina or NYR, we could very well be looking at a guy who has every intention to explore the market next summer.

 

[maplesyrup]

I don't know that it's a good idea to build your team around media rumors but it's possible I suppose he wouldn't re-sign.

 

[Champ Kind]

-  Schenn for JVR
-  5th overall + Franson (they want a D) + Bozak (replacement) for Staal
-  Sign Chris Kelly


Lupul-Staal-Kessel
JVR-Grabovski-Kadri
Kulemin-Kelly-MacArthur
Crabb-Steckal-Brown

I'd like that!

Erndog, big overpayment on Stall, no?  I also think that, long term, Stall would slot in beautifully in the second centre spot, just behind a Galchenyuk or Grigorenko (and, of course, fingers crossed they turn out). 

I just shudder to think the Penguins get the fifth pick and draft another Jagr.  Plus, I think there are other options to get that deal done (but I'm 100% with you in lusting after Staal).

 

[Derk]

I'd kinda like to see the Leafs hold on to their first round pick, but that's just me.

 

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

IMO, either the #5 or Gardiner would be too much to include in a package for Staal.  Think a combo or young D man - (Schenn, Franson) - young roster forward (Bozal, Kadri, Frattin) and a 2nd tier prospect would be a good deal for sides.

 

[bustaheims]

I don't know that it's a good idea to build your team around media rumors but it's possible I suppose he wouldn't re-sign.

Obviously, you have treat all that stuff with at least a few grains of salt, but, when it's being reported by guys like Bob McKenzie, it's certainly something you have to take into consideration. If he was signed to an extension as part of the deal, obviously that would change things, but, since the draft comes before he's eligible to do such a thing . . .

 

[Corn Flake]

I would do whatever I had to do to keep the 5th pick and I don't see it moving in that trade, to be honest.  Franson + Mac + Kulemin, perhaps or Franson + Colborne.

Especially in light of the fact the he's 1 season away from being a UFA and can't be signed to an extension until July, I'd be very hesitant to part with that pick for him. There have been rumours floating around that he'd really like to play with one of his brothers, and, if that's true, unless the Leafs can pry Eric or Mark out of Carolina or NYR, we could very well be looking at a guy who has every intention to explore the market next summer.

For sure, and I'm sure Burke would be doing his homework on that front, finding out what his thoughts are.

 

[Corn Flake]

IMO, either the #5 or Gardiner would be too much to include in a package for Staal.  Think a combo or young D man - (Schenn, Franson) - young roster forward (Bozal, Kadri, Frattin) and a 2nd tier prospect would be a good deal for sides.

I agree.  Right now, the top of the Leafs prospect chart (not including the graduate crowd .. more than 1 season) looks like:

1. Gardiner
2. The top 5 pick
3. Kadri
4. Colbourne.
5. Blaker
6. Frattin
7-10. Ross, Biggs, Percey, Scrivens, etc etc.

Giving up the top two young assets you have in a trade like this doesn't make sense.. I think you would be looking at more of a Nash level player for that kind of return, and the general consensus here is that the Leafs shouldn't be in that sweeps because they aren't ready for that type of player.

 

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

I agree.  Right now, the top of the Leafs prospect chart (not including the graduate crowd .. more than 1 season) looks like:

1. Gardiner
2. The top 5 pick
3. Kadri
4. Colbourne.
5. Blaker
6. Frattin
7-10. Ross, Biggs, Percey, Scrivens, etc etc.

Who has more trade value - Kadri or Bozak?  IMO - Bozak has more value, because he is a 'fringy' 2nd centre type, while Kadri seems to have stalled out in his development.

 

[Corn Flake]

I agree.  Right now, the top of the Leafs prospect chart (not including the graduate crowd .. more than 1 season) looks like:

1. Gardiner
2. The top 5 pick
3. Kadri
4. Colbourne.
5. Blaker
6. Frattin
7-10. Ross, Biggs, Percey, Scrivens, etc etc.

Who has more trade value - Kadri or Bozak?  IMO - Bozak has more value, because he is a 'fringy' 2nd centre type, while Kadri seems to have stalled out in his development.

Kadri has more value by far.  If Kadri has stalled in your mind I don't see how Bozak hasn't.

Kadri still has the upside and is only just barely 21.  Bozak has two full seasons, is much older and played with PPG wingers.  I'd say if anyone has stalled it would be Bozak.

 

[Britishbulldog]

IMO, either the #5 or Gardiner would be too much to include in a package for Staal.  Think a combo or young D man - (Schenn, Franson) - young roster forward (Bozal, Kadri, Frattin) and a 2nd tier prospect would be a good deal for sides.

I agree. 

Giving up the top two young assets you have in a trade like this doesn't make sense.. I think you would be looking at more of a Nash level player for that kind of return, and the general consensus here is that the Leafs shouldn't be in that sweeps because they aren't ready for that type of player.

Pittsburgh has committed to RH dmen:
$4.0 Michalek  3 more years
$3.5 Letang 2 more years
$0.6 Engelland 2 more years (tough guy)
$1.5 RFA Niskanen
$0.6 Lovejoy

To LH dmen:
$5.0 Martin 3 more years
$3.75 Orpik 2 more years
Rookie $0.84 Despres 3 more years

For that fact I could seem them wanting LH Gunnarsson although I would prefer trading RH Franson.

I cling to:
J. Staal for young D man - (Schenn, Franson Gunnarsson) - young roster forward (Bozak, cheap and solid 3rd center Kadri, Frattin), a 2nd tier prospect player Armstrong  and a 2nd tier prospect like Crescenzi would be a good deal for sides.