The Unofficial Fire Ron Wilson/Ron Wilson is the Greatest Thread

[Fanatic]

The Pat Quinn teams gave up less goals than the Pat Burns teams.

That could very well have more to do with the change across the NHL where fewer goals were scored. I wonder how the Burns era would look compared to the Quinn era in goals against in terms of simple ranking - so for example in 1993 the Leafs were ranked ______ in the NHL in goals against and in 2002 the Leafs were ranked ______ in the NHL in goals against.

 

[bustaheims]

The Pat Quinn teams gave up less goals than the Pat Burns teams.

THey also scored less goals, so, maybe that had more to do with the league at the time than the defensive play of those individual teams.

Also, those Quinn teams had Vezina calibre goaltending for pretty much his entire tenure - something the Leafs definitely do not have anymore.

 

[Kin]

I wonder how the Burns era would look compared to the Quinn era in goals against in terms of simple ranking - so for example in 1993 the Leafs were ranked ______ in the NHL in goals against and in 2002 the Leafs were ranked ______ in the NHL in goals against.

Just at a glance:

93 - 2nd best in the league
02 - 13th best in the league

Although Quinn's team did get as good as 10th.

 

[bustaheims]

Just at a glance:

93 - 2nd best in the league
02 - 13th best in the league

Although Quinn's team did get as good as 10th.

Yeah, those Quinn helmed teams were usually middle of the pack in terms of goals against, though, a couple seasons, they had some of the worst goals against numbers for teams that qualified for the playoffs that season. As I pointed out in my previous post, he also had the benefit of Vezina calibre goaltending most of those seasons, which certainly helped boost the Leafs' rankings. My guess is a Quinn helmed team with the goaltending the Leafs are getting now would probably be just about as successful as the team has been under Wilson. I liked Quinn during his tenure here, but, those Leaf teams weren't particularly good on the defensive side of the puck.

 

[Kin]

Yeah, those Quinn helmed teams were usually middle of the pack in terms of goals against, though, a couple seasons, they had some of the worst goals against numbers for teams that qualified for the playoffs that season. As I pointed out in my previous post, he also had the benefit of Vezina calibre goaltending most of those seasons, which certainly helped boost the Leafs' rankings. My guess is a Quinn helmed team with the goaltending the Leafs are getting now would probably be just about as successful as the team has been under Wilson. I liked Quinn during his tenure here, but, those Leaf teams weren't particularly good on the defensive side of the puck.

Perhaps. Although Quinn's teams did have uniformly better PK's, climbing as high as 3rd in the league. Now, you can attribute that to the importance a goalie has on the PK or it can jack up Leafs Nation's shared mancrush(or regular crush) on Dmitri Yushkevich or it may be evidence that Quinn could coach a little there too.

 

[bustaheims]

Perhaps. Although Quinn's teams did have uniformly better PK's, climbing as high as 3rd in the league. Now, you can attribute that to the importance a goalie has on the PK or it can jack up Leafs Nation's shared mancrush(or regular crush) on Dmitri Yushkevich or it may be evidence that Quinn could coach a little there too.

If it was consistently high, I might be willing to give Quinn more credit for it, but, for most of his tenure, it was middle of the pack or worse, so, I'm inclined to lay the majority of the difference from Quinn's generally middle of the pack or worse PK and Wilson's bottom of the barrel PK on goaltending. I don't think it's much of a coincidence that the years those teams were in the top 10 on the PK were also the years those teams had what was probably their best goaltending performances.

 

[Kin]

Fair enough, and I would probably concede that Quinn had better talent outside of the net in that regard too.

Which brings me back to where I really stand on the whole thing and how Burke really hasn't done enough to improve the team.

 

[maplesyrup]

mirtle James Mirtle
The Leafs have had the worst goaltending in the NHL since 2008-09, but here's where the other 29 teams come in: docs.google.com/spreadsheet/cc?
1 minute ago

You know, for a GM who build who preaches building from the net out, it's true... Burke hasn't exactly done a stellar job off of helping his coach out to date in that regard.

 

[bustaheims]

You know, for a GM who build who preaches building from the net out, it's true... Burke hasn't exactly done a stellar job off of helping his coach out to date in that regard.

He hasn't put a lot of effort into fixing the situation on an immediate basis, though, in fairness, it's not like there's been a lot of goalie talent readily available, and, he had legitimate reasons for not seriously pursuing a starter this summer. He has, however, significantly improved the goalie depth in the system from what it was when he got here.

 

[Frank E]

You know, for a GM who build who preaches building from the net out, it's true... Burke hasn't exactly done a stellar job off of helping his coach out to date in that regard.

He hasn't put a lot of effort into fixing the situation on an immediate basis, though, in fairness, it's not like there's been a lot of goalie talent readily available, and, he had legitimate reasons for not seriously pursuing a starter this summer. He has, however, significantly improved the goalie depth in the system from what it was when he got here.

Appeaser!

 

[bustaheims]

Appeaser!

You're right. He clearly should have traded more draft picks and top prospects for goalies that don't work out. Re-hire JFJ!!!

 

[Kin]

Appeaser!

You're right. He clearly should have traded more draft picks and top prospects for goalies that won't work out. Re-hire JFJ!!!

Pretty clearly, I think what people mean is that Bruke should have invested in a goalie with an unwhiplashable neck.

 

[bustaheims]

Pretty clearly, I think what people mean is that Bruke should have invested in a goalie with an unwhiplashable neck.

Sure, but would a goalie with so many fused vertebrae be able to play behind this defence?

 

[maplesyrup]

"A" for effort, I guess... and touche on the JFJ remark.  8)

 

[Frank E]

I actually quite enjoy that there is so much pressure to win this early in the season.  Marked change from the 'be patient' approach of the last couple of years.

 

[Bender]

Appeaser!

You're right. He clearly should have traded more draft picks and top prospects for goalies that won't work out. Re-hire JFJ!!!

Pretty clearly, I think what people mean is that Bruke should have invested in a goalie with an unwhiplashable neck.

We'll buy you a new dog - one with an untwistable stomach!

 

[Hank Yarbo]

Appeaser!

You're right. He clearly should have traded more draft picks and top prospects for goalies that won't work out. Re-hire JFJ!!!

Pretty clearly, I think what people mean is that Bruke should have invested in a goalie with an unwhiplashable neck.

We'll buy you a new dog - one with an untwistable stomach!

???    :'(

 

[Joe S.]

I wonder how the Burns era would look compared to the Quinn era in goals against in terms of simple ranking - so for example in 1993 the Leafs were ranked ______ in the NHL in goals against and in 2002 the Leafs were ranked ______ in the NHL in goals against.

Just at a glance:

93 - 2nd best in the league
02 - 13th best in the league

Although Quinn's team did get as good as 10th.

True - that's how I should have looked at it.

But to call those teams weak defensively is untrue.

 

[maplesyrup]

Okay, Wilson just bought himself another month with me...

koshtorontosun Terry Koshan
by dshoalts
#Leafs Wilson can't help himself. Will Scrivens start on Sat.? "I will call the goalies? moms and we will find out from there."
5 minutes ago

 

[crazyperfectdevil]

Okay, Wilson just bought himself another month with me...

koshtorontosun Terry Koshan
by dshoalts
#Leafs Wilson can't help himself. Will Scrivens start on Sat.? "I will call the goalies? moms and we will find out from there."
5 minutes ago

yup..was just coming here to comment on that...saw that on tsn and loved it ...they really have no business going after reimer's mom ..i want to know what's up with reimer as much as anyone ..but that's crossing a line