The Unofficial Fire Ron Wilson/Ron Wilson is the Greatest Thread
- Thread starter Kin
- Start date
- Status
bustaheims
Active member
Sarge said:
Extend Wilson! 8)
maplesyrup
New member
Okay, now the media types... Feel free to post anything if you see it, folks.
maplesyrup
New member
Saint Nik said:
Wilson skated the team hard today... He could have rested his team like Blysma did and who knows what Wilson said to keep these guys glued. Feel free to think Wilson had nothing to do with this win but I'm not inclined to believe that.If we lose this game, this thread is filled with how bad the coach is - Book it.
Edit: and I'm sure the Cox's, Simmons' of the world would be on him too...
Kin
New member
Sarge said:
Or the Leafs are professionals who took their own motivation in a tough loss and came back hard the next night. Like you say, who knows? I'm not inclined to divy up credit to fill a narrative without citing anything specific.
I mean, maybe it wasn't Wilson's coaching. Maybe it was Dion Phaneuf's fiercely determined square jawed leadership. Or Mikhail Grabovski's German ruthlessness. Or the buoyant return of valued dressing room favourite Colby Armstrong. Or maybe it was the return to the friendly confines of home turf that allowed the valiant warriors to soothe their aching muscles and put on a better effort for the hometown faithful.
maplesyrup
New member
Saint Nik said:
Great! So when do you take over for these media types I'm talking about? Because a lot of them have no problem pointing to Wilson without citing anything specific after loses. However, that's not exactly shocking given who I'm talking about which is really only to my point. - A point I suppose which isn't exactly shocking either.
maplesyrup
New member
Wait. Why are you thinking that my feeling is wins / loses are "directly" on the coach? I never said that. All I asked was "how long do I have to wait before anyone gives credit to Wilson for holding the team together after last night's mess?" Feel free to dissect that into something it's not intended to be but the simple fact is Wilson deserves some credit here... and I doubt he'll be given his due. It's really is just as simple as that.
Wow, lot of volleys back and forth, good stuff. I'll jump in just for fun. I think Sarge states specifically that Wilson chose to skate the team hard. It's just hard to quantify if that or anything else (such as the list Nik mentioned) had an impact on the win. We can say Wilson's decision did not adversely impact on the outcome and may have helped.
What bothers me is when the whole debate over Wilson's coaching revolves around his personality instead of his record.
Trying to look at it "objectively" as possible (while admittedly being more pro Wilson than con), the team he inherited when he got here really was BRUTAL. You just have to look at the list of discards, guys like: Poni, Hagman, Stajan, Blake, Mitchell, etc, who have done absolutely nothing elsewhere, yet they were part of the regular core here. Then, there was Toskala (don't even get me started on that).
It just kind of bugs me that people keep popping off, "Oh, Wilson throws his players under the bus, he's so mean." Bleeding hearts. This guys are million dollar players. Besides, I think he's just being honest, he'll praise or criticize depending on what he's asked. He actually stands up for players who may not be having great success in some areas, but play hard and follow the details. Kulimen is a great example. Grabo was previously when he struggled, but Wilson stuck with him and praised him, and look at him now. What drives Wilson and any coach nuts, is when guys are lazy or continually make stupid plays. I'm sure he had talked plenty with Kessel about improving his game over the past couple of seasons. At least that's what he suggests in interviews.
Frankly, in terms of media interviews, I can't blame Wilson for getting a little annoyed at some of the stupid or insanely repetitive questions they ask. I mean have you listened to some of that stuff. I'm sure there are posters on here that could ask better questions. At least they should appreciate that he gives honest answers and not just pat answers.
Burkie is generally more bombastic and sarcastic, but he doesn't catch near the flak or scorn that Wilson does.
In terms of coaching record, I have generally found that Wilson gets a strong effort out of most of the team on most nights. However, I was teetering on whether he should be replaced a month ago. The on-going PK woes and overall defensive record is very hard to ignore, especially when you have a quality guy like Dallas Eakins so ready to be promoted. For now, it looks like Wilson has turned things around with the team, almost miraculously on the PK. Hard to believe really that they could go from absolutely putrid to sheer perfection in the blink of an eye.
In terms of overall defence, I will make a bold prediction that they will finish about 15th, middle of the league, now currently 25th. Based on what?
The Jets are currently 15th, have played the same number of games, and only have 8 more goals against. So the gap isn't that great.
1) I don't expect the PK to stay where it's at now, but I think it will be a whole lot better than where it was. Probably about 80 per cent that rest of the way.
2) I expect Gus to be closer to what he is now than what he was then.
3) I think Reimer will turn the corner as well, and get back at least closer to what he was last year as opposed to post-injury.
4) On the D, Franson is a whole lot better, Gardiner is learning. The vets like Phanuef, Liles, Komi and to some extent Gunner (if you can call him a vet?) will play about the same. Schenn in my mind is a wildcard. I really don't know what to expect, and that ain't so great. A trade, maybe?
The Leafs should make the playoffs, especially if Burke can shore up the forward situation a bit. They need a new look between Lupul and Kessel (maybe even try Lombardi there?) and some sort of chemistry between Connolly and whatever linemates he's with. I'm thinking Army might help get him going, then you need a scorer on the left side.
Sorry for the long post. I guess I got carried away...
What bothers me is when the whole debate over Wilson's coaching revolves around his personality instead of his record.
Trying to look at it "objectively" as possible (while admittedly being more pro Wilson than con), the team he inherited when he got here really was BRUTAL. You just have to look at the list of discards, guys like: Poni, Hagman, Stajan, Blake, Mitchell, etc, who have done absolutely nothing elsewhere, yet they were part of the regular core here. Then, there was Toskala (don't even get me started on that).
It just kind of bugs me that people keep popping off, "Oh, Wilson throws his players under the bus, he's so mean." Bleeding hearts. This guys are million dollar players. Besides, I think he's just being honest, he'll praise or criticize depending on what he's asked. He actually stands up for players who may not be having great success in some areas, but play hard and follow the details. Kulimen is a great example. Grabo was previously when he struggled, but Wilson stuck with him and praised him, and look at him now. What drives Wilson and any coach nuts, is when guys are lazy or continually make stupid plays. I'm sure he had talked plenty with Kessel about improving his game over the past couple of seasons. At least that's what he suggests in interviews.
Frankly, in terms of media interviews, I can't blame Wilson for getting a little annoyed at some of the stupid or insanely repetitive questions they ask. I mean have you listened to some of that stuff. I'm sure there are posters on here that could ask better questions. At least they should appreciate that he gives honest answers and not just pat answers.
Burkie is generally more bombastic and sarcastic, but he doesn't catch near the flak or scorn that Wilson does.
In terms of coaching record, I have generally found that Wilson gets a strong effort out of most of the team on most nights. However, I was teetering on whether he should be replaced a month ago. The on-going PK woes and overall defensive record is very hard to ignore, especially when you have a quality guy like Dallas Eakins so ready to be promoted. For now, it looks like Wilson has turned things around with the team, almost miraculously on the PK. Hard to believe really that they could go from absolutely putrid to sheer perfection in the blink of an eye.
In terms of overall defence, I will make a bold prediction that they will finish about 15th, middle of the league, now currently 25th. Based on what?
The Jets are currently 15th, have played the same number of games, and only have 8 more goals against. So the gap isn't that great.
1) I don't expect the PK to stay where it's at now, but I think it will be a whole lot better than where it was. Probably about 80 per cent that rest of the way.
2) I expect Gus to be closer to what he is now than what he was then.
3) I think Reimer will turn the corner as well, and get back at least closer to what he was last year as opposed to post-injury.
4) On the D, Franson is a whole lot better, Gardiner is learning. The vets like Phanuef, Liles, Komi and to some extent Gunner (if you can call him a vet?) will play about the same. Schenn in my mind is a wildcard. I really don't know what to expect, and that ain't so great. A trade, maybe?
The Leafs should make the playoffs, especially if Burke can shore up the forward situation a bit. They need a new look between Lupul and Kessel (maybe even try Lombardi there?) and some sort of chemistry between Connolly and whatever linemates he's with. I'm thinking Army might help get him going, then you need a scorer on the left side.
Sorry for the long post. I guess I got carried away...
Zee said:
It seems Burke was right yet again on resigning him. I think the press needs to get with the program, and stop dissing his moves, and Rons. all along it was just a matter of this young and just built team learning the system. a system that over the last month is looking very good. when was the last time the leafs were this good on pp and pk. and I am talking from jan on.
applecheeks
New member
A great post. bang on IMO. nice to see somebody standing up for the coach. These guys are buying into a system and it is starting to work more consistently. time will tell of course but it is nice to see them gel.slapshot said:
There's no reason to stand up for him.
Ron Wilson had a "vision" of offensively charged up and down the rink hockey. The team was not talented enough offensively or defensively to do this. Toskala was a bad goalie, but Wilson definitely didn't do him any favours with the style that he employed. The defencemen he had weren't good enough to play solid D without any sort of defensive system, and the forwards couldn't score enough goals to make up for the holes in the D.
When Wilson came about he had a prime-ish Kabby, and a prime-ish Kubina on the back end. The next year he had Komisarek coming off an all star season, Francois Beachemin who played MORE minutes than Neids or Pronger in Anaheim, and Luke Schenn. Admittedly, the forwards were pretty terrible...which is WHY he should have adapted the style he wanted the team to play.
The 2009-2010 Toronto Maple Leafs were not the least talented team in the Eastern Conference. They had good players playing defence, but what held them back was the COACH's insistence to play a style of game that they were not suited to. If your roster's strength is defensive defencemen, you do not play a run n' gun style. It just doesn't happen.
Even now, the Leafs are way more talented, people are starting to get on the bandwagon, even praising Wilson. They're BARELY in the playoffs. Over half the teams in the NHL make the playoffs. This isn't something that should be celebrated. It should be tolerated. He's set the bar so low that any improvement seems monumental. Defensively the last little while, the team has actually looked good. And Jonas Gustavsson, who previously looked like a sieve, actually looked DOMINANT in the month of January. The reason is better defensive structure. Goalies can't make 1000 point blank stops a game. If Wilson sticks to this defensive structure, then maybe I'll stop criticizing, but up to this point he's done nothing but cripple the team moving forward.
Ron Wilson had a "vision" of offensively charged up and down the rink hockey. The team was not talented enough offensively or defensively to do this. Toskala was a bad goalie, but Wilson definitely didn't do him any favours with the style that he employed. The defencemen he had weren't good enough to play solid D without any sort of defensive system, and the forwards couldn't score enough goals to make up for the holes in the D.
When Wilson came about he had a prime-ish Kabby, and a prime-ish Kubina on the back end. The next year he had Komisarek coming off an all star season, Francois Beachemin who played MORE minutes than Neids or Pronger in Anaheim, and Luke Schenn. Admittedly, the forwards were pretty terrible...which is WHY he should have adapted the style he wanted the team to play.
The 2009-2010 Toronto Maple Leafs were not the least talented team in the Eastern Conference. They had good players playing defence, but what held them back was the COACH's insistence to play a style of game that they were not suited to. If your roster's strength is defensive defencemen, you do not play a run n' gun style. It just doesn't happen.
Even now, the Leafs are way more talented, people are starting to get on the bandwagon, even praising Wilson. They're BARELY in the playoffs. Over half the teams in the NHL make the playoffs. This isn't something that should be celebrated. It should be tolerated. He's set the bar so low that any improvement seems monumental. Defensively the last little while, the team has actually looked good. And Jonas Gustavsson, who previously looked like a sieve, actually looked DOMINANT in the month of January. The reason is better defensive structure. Goalies can't make 1000 point blank stops a game. If Wilson sticks to this defensive structure, then maybe I'll stop criticizing, but up to this point he's done nothing but cripple the team moving forward.
applecheeks
New member
He really didn't have much to work with, agreed. So you still find negatives and it seems you'll always look for those faults until when.....they bring home the cup? We all want it, baby steps dude. or do you think we can do this faster? anyway I look at it, probably 2 or 3 years before we compete seriously for the cup. IMO.
donkeyy0 said:
Well I think there is a reason to stand up for him when I read comments like these, not that you're being overly harsh. I'm no big Ron Wilson hero fan or anything but I think there are a few fair points in his favour.
First, Wilson's 'vision' is also Brian Burke's, he said so himself when discussing the Leafs as 'entertainment' recently and I don't think that would change if Wilson was fired. When Brian arrived I think they set the blueprint and have largely stuck to it as a group while looking short and long term.
The team they inherited was pretty dismal in terms of talent and is just now getting to the other side of average but in the style they desire and that's not easy to accomplish. Looking at the rosters in Wilsons first two years one can easily say he was trying to fit a round peg into a square hole but if the notion is a total change of style/culture it can't happen overnight and when you tear it down and become significantly younger/green in terms of experience there will be growing pains in pursuit of that goal.
Second, I don't think the team has suddenly changed into a defensive format, they've tightened that part of the game up but I wouldn't characterize their game as defensive oriented though it's improving.
Third, goaltending, I probably don't have to elaborate there.
Some other coach could probably have squeezed out a few more points but I don't think it would matter a whole lot in terms of the team becoming a consistent threat in the playoffs without some significant talent upgrades and roster changes, which is what we're enjoying this year to a degree.
As far as Wilson crippling the team, I really don't understand what you mean there, they're improving in many areas and seem more able to adjust when they need to.
Setting the bar low goes back well before Wilson and Burke, fwiw but when I look at that 09-10 year and see Ron is 3 wins away from tying the win record from that season with 30 games to go in this one, I think that's a pretty fair turnaround.
- Status